WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.860 align:middle line:90% 00:00:08.860 --> 00:00:10.552 align:middle line:90% Looks like we are good to go. 00:00:10.552 --> 00:00:12.260 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to go ahead and get started. 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:14.740 align:middle line:84% Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. 00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:17.590 align:middle line:84% For those of you who I don't know, my name's Brianna Blaser. 00:00:17.590 --> 00:00:21.250 align:middle line:84% I work at the University of Washington in the DO-IT Center. 00:00:21.250 --> 00:00:24.850 align:middle line:84% And through this recent grant from the United Engineering 00:00:24.850 --> 00:00:27.880 align:middle line:84% Foundation, we're working to build more resources 00:00:27.880 --> 00:00:31.600 align:middle line:84% and community around accessibility and engineering. 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.960 align:middle line:84% So part of that is webinars like this. 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.690 align:middle line:84% We have an online community, as well, 00:00:37.690 --> 00:00:41.830 align:middle line:84% where we post relevant articles and have some discussion. 00:00:41.830 --> 00:00:45.070 align:middle line:84% And we'll be building some written resources 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:46.490 align:middle line:90% for our website, as well. 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:49.450 align:middle line:84% So if you're not getting emails from us on a regular basis 00:00:49.450 --> 00:00:52.330 align:middle line:84% about these sorts of things and would like to, I invite you 00:00:52.330 --> 00:00:58.000 align:middle line:84% to email us at DO-IT, D-O-I-T, at uw.edu and get connected. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.240 align:middle line:84% And I'll put that in the chat, as well. 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:05.170 align:middle line:84% And I'll also share with you that after today's webinar, 00:01:05.170 --> 00:01:07.270 align:middle line:90% we'll be sending an evaluation. 00:01:07.270 --> 00:01:09.950 align:middle line:84% And we always appreciate it if folks fill those out 00:01:09.950 --> 00:01:15.760 align:middle line:84% so we can share with our funders about the work that we're doing 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:17.300 align:middle line:90% and improve in the future. 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:21.890 align:middle line:84% So I'm not going to say much more about that, 00:01:21.890 --> 00:01:25.490 align:middle line:84% and I'll hand it over to Kayla to introduce today's panel 00:01:25.490 --> 00:01:28.250 align:middle line:90% discussion and panelists. 00:01:28.250 --> 00:01:29.260 align:middle line:90% Hi, everyone. 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:33.020 align:middle line:84% So my name is Kayla, and I also work with Brianna 00:01:33.020 --> 00:01:34.600 align:middle line:90% on access computing. 00:01:34.600 --> 00:01:39.880 align:middle line:84% And I'm really excited to be able to host a panel today. 00:01:39.880 --> 00:01:41.420 align:middle line:90% I myself have a disability. 00:01:41.420 --> 00:01:44.200 align:middle line:84% And so one thing that I really like to do 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:47.440 align:middle line:84% is when we're doing outreach in our programs, 00:01:47.440 --> 00:01:50.950 align:middle line:84% we really want to have people with disabilities 00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:53.530 align:middle line:84% involved in the conversation as much as possible. 00:01:53.530 --> 00:01:55.820 align:middle line:84% So panels are a great way to do that. 00:01:55.820 --> 00:01:59.792 align:middle line:84% And I reached out to our network of folks 00:01:59.792 --> 00:02:01.500 align:middle line:84% to see who would want to be on our panel, 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:07.203 align:middle line:84% and I got three lovely folks to participate. 00:02:07.203 --> 00:02:08.870 align:middle line:84% And I'll have them introduce themselves, 00:02:08.870 --> 00:02:10.824 align:middle line:84% but we've got Hannah, Nolan, and Ather. 00:02:10.824 --> 00:02:14.392 align:middle line:90% 00:02:14.392 --> 00:02:15.850 align:middle line:84% So the way this is going to work is 00:02:15.850 --> 00:02:20.230 align:middle line:84% I have some questions that I can throw out there. 00:02:20.230 --> 00:02:22.960 align:middle line:84% But if any time you, the audience, 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:28.240 align:middle line:84% wants to ask something, feel free to put it in the chat 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.090 align:middle line:90% or let me know. 00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:34.930 align:middle line:84% And we really don't mind audience questions at all. 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:36.990 align:middle line:84% And there will be space at the end. 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:40.610 align:middle line:84% We'll make sure there's time, as well. 00:02:40.610 --> 00:02:44.170 align:middle line:84% So the first thing I want to do is have our panelists 00:02:44.170 --> 00:02:48.970 align:middle line:90% introduce themselves to you. 00:02:48.970 --> 00:02:50.980 align:middle line:84% Nolan, would you like to go first? 00:02:50.980 --> 00:02:54.070 align:middle line:84% I would love to hear a little bit about you, 00:02:54.070 --> 00:02:56.320 align:middle line:84% where you went to school, and what you're up to now, 00:02:56.320 --> 00:02:59.290 align:middle line:84% and if there's anything else you want to share. 00:02:59.290 --> 00:02:59.830 align:middle line:90% Awesome. 00:02:59.830 --> 00:03:01.990 align:middle line:90% Thank you so much. 00:03:01.990 --> 00:03:02.890 align:middle line:90% Hi, everyone. 00:03:02.890 --> 00:03:04.330 align:middle line:90% I'm Nolan. 00:03:04.330 --> 00:03:10.240 align:middle line:84% I am a recent graduate of McDaniel College in Maryland. 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:13.910 align:middle line:90% I studied political science. 00:03:13.910 --> 00:03:19.210 align:middle line:84% I'm super excited for the 2020 election. 00:03:19.210 --> 00:03:25.230 align:middle line:84% And I am interested in going into advertising. 00:03:25.230 --> 00:03:27.880 align:middle line:90% 00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:33.400 align:middle line:84% So that's sort of where I'm headed, hopefully, 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:34.030 align:middle line:90% at the moment. 00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:36.940 align:middle line:90% 00:03:36.940 --> 00:03:37.887 align:middle line:90% Awesome. 00:03:37.887 --> 00:03:38.970 align:middle line:90% Hannah, do you want to go? 00:03:38.970 --> 00:03:44.350 align:middle line:90% 00:03:44.350 --> 00:03:46.880 align:middle line:90% Can people hear me? 00:03:46.880 --> 00:03:47.450 align:middle line:90% Yup. 00:03:47.450 --> 00:03:49.370 align:middle line:90% OK, cool. 00:03:49.370 --> 00:03:50.120 align:middle line:90% Hi, everybody. 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:51.360 align:middle line:90% I'm Hannah. 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.810 align:middle line:84% I just graduated this spring from the University 00:03:53.810 --> 00:03:55.280 align:middle line:90% of Washington. 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.860 align:middle line:84% I majored in computer science and minored 00:03:57.860 --> 00:04:00.110 align:middle line:90% in physics and math. 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:02.960 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to be a software development 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:07.770 align:middle line:90% engineer starting in the fall. 00:04:07.770 --> 00:04:09.482 align:middle line:90% And I have a visual impairment. 00:04:09.482 --> 00:04:13.070 align:middle line:90% 00:04:13.070 --> 00:04:13.640 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:04:13.640 --> 00:04:14.964 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:04:14.964 --> 00:04:16.230 align:middle line:90% Ather? 00:04:16.230 --> 00:04:17.269 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:04:17.269 --> 00:04:19.463 align:middle line:84% Thank you so much for organizing this panel. 00:04:19.463 --> 00:04:20.880 align:middle line:84% Really excited to be a part of it. 00:04:20.880 --> 00:04:22.160 align:middle line:90% My name is Ather. 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.880 align:middle line:84% I am a rising second year PhD student at the University 00:04:25.880 --> 00:04:26.670 align:middle line:90% of Washington. 00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:29.480 align:middle line:90% I joined in last year. 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:31.190 align:middle line:84% Very happy to be done with the first year 00:04:31.190 --> 00:04:34.190 align:middle line:84% and very excited to be starting the second year. 00:04:34.190 --> 00:04:37.652 align:middle line:84% I also work as a software engineer at Comcast, and just 00:04:37.652 --> 00:04:39.110 align:middle line:84% really excited to be on this panel. 00:04:39.110 --> 00:04:43.260 align:middle line:90% 00:04:43.260 --> 00:04:44.370 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:04:44.370 --> 00:04:45.320 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:04:45.320 --> 00:04:53.790 align:middle line:84% So the first question that I have is, how, if anything, 00:04:53.790 --> 00:04:58.750 align:middle line:84% has your disability influenced your career choices, 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.590 align:middle line:84% your career path, what you've studied? 00:05:02.590 --> 00:05:07.440 align:middle line:90% And if it has, how so? 00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:10.410 align:middle line:84% Nolan, would you want to start there? 00:05:10.410 --> 00:05:12.990 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:05:12.990 --> 00:05:16.590 align:middle line:84% I mean, it's always hard to sort of answer 00:05:16.590 --> 00:05:21.180 align:middle line:84% the question of how has your disability influenced 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:27.312 align:middle line:84% your life, because it's hard to say 00:05:27.312 --> 00:05:31.010 align:middle line:84% how it has versus how the bad decisions I 00:05:31.010 --> 00:05:33.470 align:middle line:90% make on a daily basis have. 00:05:33.470 --> 00:05:35.270 align:middle line:90% Joking. 00:05:35.270 --> 00:05:43.700 align:middle line:84% But one of the things that I wanted to do when I was younger 00:05:43.700 --> 00:05:52.060 align:middle line:84% was I really thought detective work was really cool. 00:05:52.060 --> 00:06:00.610 align:middle line:84% And at my high school job fair, there 00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:03.970 align:middle line:84% was I think it was the Washington State 00:06:03.970 --> 00:06:05.530 align:middle line:90% Troopers or someone. 00:06:05.530 --> 00:06:07.360 align:middle line:90% It doesn't matter. 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:11.980 align:middle line:84% They came and had a sort of a table set up, 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:15.550 align:middle line:84% and I was just asking about what it sort of it 00:06:15.550 --> 00:06:18.580 align:middle line:90% takes to be a detective. 00:06:18.580 --> 00:06:22.540 align:middle line:84% And the guy who was standing there just sort of looked me 00:06:22.540 --> 00:06:24.550 align:middle line:84% up and down and was like, well, you're 00:06:24.550 --> 00:06:28.000 align:middle line:84% going to have to be a police officer first, 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:29.540 align:middle line:90% and you can't really do that. 00:06:29.540 --> 00:06:31.550 align:middle line:90% So you're sort of out of luck. 00:06:31.550 --> 00:06:34.570 align:middle line:90% 00:06:34.570 --> 00:06:39.910 align:middle line:84% Thankfully, there's a whole bunch of other stuff I can do, 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:44.560 align:middle line:84% and I think advertising is really cool. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:54.820 align:middle line:84% But that was sort of the most outwardly 00:06:54.820 --> 00:07:03.550 align:middle line:84% I guess ableist sort of stopping point in a career path, 00:07:03.550 --> 00:07:06.700 align:middle line:90% for me at least. 00:07:06.700 --> 00:07:09.990 align:middle line:84% That's the only major thing that's come to mind. 00:07:09.990 --> 00:07:13.740 align:middle line:90% 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:14.722 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:07:14.722 --> 00:07:15.930 align:middle line:90% Hannah, would you like to go? 00:07:15.930 --> 00:07:19.010 align:middle line:90% 00:07:19.010 --> 00:07:22.070 align:middle line:90% Yeah, sure. 00:07:22.070 --> 00:07:27.540 align:middle line:84% I think for me, it's kind of similar to Nolan. 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:32.280 align:middle line:84% I'm not really sure how much my disability actually 00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:35.560 align:middle line:84% impacted my choices of what I wanted to study. 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:39.510 align:middle line:84% I feel like I more went with what was interesting to me 00:07:39.510 --> 00:07:41.760 align:middle line:84% and what classes I liked the most 00:07:41.760 --> 00:07:47.970 align:middle line:84% and what I could see myself doing in the future. 00:07:47.970 --> 00:07:52.250 align:middle line:84% And I never really considered, I guess, 00:07:52.250 --> 00:07:56.320 align:middle line:84% how my disability played into that 00:07:56.320 --> 00:07:59.695 align:middle line:90% or how it influenced my choices. 00:07:59.695 --> 00:08:02.950 align:middle line:90% 00:08:02.950 --> 00:08:04.990 align:middle line:84% It took me a little while in college 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:08.230 align:middle line:84% to figure out what I wanted to do to begin with. 00:08:08.230 --> 00:08:10.720 align:middle line:84% But in all that time and in all the things that I tried, 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:14.480 align:middle line:84% I never really considered that I wouldn't 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.300 align:middle line:84% be able to do something because of my disability. 00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:21.140 align:middle line:84% I just assumed I would figure it out, what I wanted to do, 00:08:21.140 --> 00:08:25.393 align:middle line:84% and might as well go and follow what my interests were. 00:08:25.393 --> 00:08:26.375 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:08:26.375 --> 00:08:27.357 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:08:27.357 --> 00:08:28.830 align:middle line:90% Ather? 00:08:28.830 --> 00:08:30.070 align:middle line:90% Sure. 00:08:30.070 --> 00:08:34.700 align:middle line:84% So my experiences have been a little bit different. 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:39.799 align:middle line:84% I got injured after I graduated with an undergraduate degree 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:42.840 align:middle line:84% and while I was pursuing my master's degree. 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:49.670 align:middle line:84% So at that point in time, I was already very focused 00:08:49.670 --> 00:08:53.720 align:middle line:84% on getting a degree in software engineering. 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.940 align:middle line:90% But after I got injured-- 00:08:56.940 --> 00:09:00.380 align:middle line:90% and that was a car accident-- 00:09:00.380 --> 00:09:03.890 align:middle line:84% I actually tried to get away from that field, 00:09:03.890 --> 00:09:07.010 align:middle line:84% just because that field requires a lot of hand function 00:09:07.010 --> 00:09:08.460 align:middle line:90% and a lot of typing. 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:11.570 align:middle line:84% So I actually tried to go away from that field based 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:13.870 align:middle line:90% on my disability. 00:09:13.870 --> 00:09:15.830 align:middle line:84% And I considered that very heavily. 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:18.500 align:middle line:84% I looked at other options, things 00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:21.800 align:middle line:84% that do not require that much of typing 00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:24.720 align:middle line:84% or anything of a computer usage, for that matter. 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:29.372 align:middle line:84% Because at that point in time, in my mind, 00:09:29.372 --> 00:09:30.830 align:middle line:84% it was pretty much that it would be 00:09:30.830 --> 00:09:33.890 align:middle line:84% very hard to compete and to be in this tech world 00:09:33.890 --> 00:09:41.330 align:middle line:84% without having something that is implicitly required, 00:09:41.330 --> 00:09:46.940 align:middle line:84% and that is a fully functional hand. 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:49.430 align:middle line:84% But it was later on that I realized that there are ways 00:09:49.430 --> 00:09:51.110 align:middle line:90% that you could adapt to it. 00:09:51.110 --> 00:09:53.330 align:middle line:84% And then I talked to a few people, 00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:57.300 align:middle line:84% and they kind of motivated me into coming back to this field. 00:09:57.300 --> 00:10:00.230 align:middle line:84% And one of the major things that stood out 00:10:00.230 --> 00:10:01.880 align:middle line:84% there was that, what if you could 00:10:01.880 --> 00:10:03.350 align:middle line:84% use the knowledge that you have now 00:10:03.350 --> 00:10:06.320 align:middle line:84% that you have a different perspective of things? 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.080 align:middle line:84% Help other people with disabilities. 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:14.750 align:middle line:84% So just because you have this interesting perspective, 00:10:14.750 --> 00:10:19.398 align:middle line:84% how would it be if you applied that knowledge to the work 00:10:19.398 --> 00:10:20.690 align:middle line:90% that you will do in the future? 00:10:20.690 --> 00:10:26.150 align:middle line:84% And that actually did change my path within computer science. 00:10:26.150 --> 00:10:27.890 align:middle line:84% So before that, I was very interested 00:10:27.890 --> 00:10:30.770 align:middle line:90% in systems and network. 00:10:30.770 --> 00:10:34.370 align:middle line:84% And then I realized that my interests now 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:37.520 align:middle line:84% lie in the field of human/computer interaction. 00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:39.590 align:middle line:84% And that was one of the reasons why I started 00:10:39.590 --> 00:10:41.060 align:middle line:90% doing a PhD in this field. 00:10:41.060 --> 00:10:44.700 align:middle line:90% 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:45.200 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.480 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.990 align:middle line:84% So with our audience in mind, I wanted 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:57.710 align:middle line:84% to ask the panelists, what are some tools and assistive 00:10:57.710 --> 00:10:59.840 align:middle line:84% technologies or assistive devices 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:03.950 align:middle line:84% that you use in your everyday life? 00:11:03.950 --> 00:11:06.200 align:middle line:84% I can speak for myself, that when 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.680 align:middle line:84% I talk to engineers about some of the tools 00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:10.658 align:middle line:90% that I use personally-- 00:11:10.658 --> 00:11:11.450 align:middle line:90% I use a wheelchair. 00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:13.250 align:middle line:90% I have muscle weakness. 00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:18.110 align:middle line:84% One of them is a very simple loop on my phone, 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:21.410 align:middle line:84% and that helps me not drop my phone, which has actually 00:11:21.410 --> 00:11:24.050 align:middle line:90% gotten a lot more common now. 00:11:24.050 --> 00:11:26.700 align:middle line:84% A lot more people have those on their phones. 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:29.270 align:middle line:90% But little things like that. 00:11:29.270 --> 00:11:31.490 align:middle line:84% Does anyone have an example of a tool 00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:35.050 align:middle line:84% that they use that they would want to talk about? 00:11:35.050 --> 00:11:36.440 align:middle line:90% It doesn't have to be fancy. 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:39.230 align:middle line:90% It can be anything. 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:46.310 align:middle line:84% So I have a couple examples of tools I would not probably 00:11:46.310 --> 00:11:48.800 align:middle line:90% want to mention. 00:11:48.800 --> 00:11:53.790 align:middle line:84% But as far as tools that I would, 00:11:53.790 --> 00:11:57.530 align:middle line:90% I use, for example, a buttoner. 00:11:57.530 --> 00:12:02.840 align:middle line:84% So it's basically a little wire on a stick 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:06.170 align:middle line:84% that you can sort of stick through your buttonhole 00:12:06.170 --> 00:12:10.100 align:middle line:84% and connect to the button and then pull it back through, 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:14.660 align:middle line:84% and it buttons your shirt for you. 00:12:14.660 --> 00:12:16.550 align:middle line:84% And that's been really helpful, just 00:12:16.550 --> 00:12:21.200 align:middle line:84% because doing fine motor skills up 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.570 align:middle line:90% here can be difficult for me. 00:12:23.570 --> 00:12:26.480 align:middle line:90% 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:33.160 align:middle line:84% That is sort of the first thing that comes to mind. 00:12:33.160 --> 00:12:39.050 align:middle line:84% And something I think we'll get to later in this conversation 00:12:39.050 --> 00:12:44.570 align:middle line:84% is a lot of the assistive technology 00:12:44.570 --> 00:12:51.270 align:middle line:84% I use is not necessarily assistive technology. 00:12:51.270 --> 00:13:01.440 align:middle line:84% But just I have a problem, and this thing seems is in reach, 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:06.670 align:middle line:84% and it seems like it might solve this problem. 00:13:06.670 --> 00:13:10.140 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to try it, and if it doesn't work, 00:13:10.140 --> 00:13:12.060 align:middle line:84% I'm going to reach for something else 00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:16.230 align:middle line:84% and see if I can solve the problem that way. 00:13:16.230 --> 00:13:19.890 align:middle line:84% So there's a lot of trial and error there. 00:13:19.890 --> 00:13:22.830 align:middle line:84% And then you find something, and you go back to it. 00:13:22.830 --> 00:13:25.605 align:middle line:84% And suddenly, it becomes a system. 00:13:25.605 --> 00:13:33.770 align:middle line:90% 00:13:33.770 --> 00:13:36.500 align:middle line:84% I actually agree with Nolan a lot there. 00:13:36.500 --> 00:13:42.170 align:middle line:84% A lot of technologies that I use are trial and error, 00:13:42.170 --> 00:13:46.160 align:middle line:84% kind of trying it out and see if it really works for us or not. 00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:48.110 align:middle line:84% I wouldn't say there's a universal tool that 00:13:48.110 --> 00:13:51.410 align:middle line:84% would work for everybody with a certain kind of disability. 00:13:51.410 --> 00:13:54.690 align:middle line:84% I think it's very specific to everyone else's need, 00:13:54.690 --> 00:13:56.870 align:middle line:90% and it's unique that way. 00:13:56.870 --> 00:14:00.260 align:middle line:84% I personally use a button opener, just like Nolan. 00:14:00.260 --> 00:14:02.840 align:middle line:84% And there was a point in my life where I kind of 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:06.890 align:middle line:84% went full on rebellion against assistive technology, 00:14:06.890 --> 00:14:10.490 align:middle line:84% because I wanted to feel really normal and just like everybody 00:14:10.490 --> 00:14:12.710 align:middle line:90% else. 00:14:12.710 --> 00:14:16.640 align:middle line:84% At that point, I didn't really realize what normal meant. 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:19.550 align:middle line:84% But since then, I've used a bunch of other technology 00:14:19.550 --> 00:14:21.860 align:middle line:90% devices. 00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:23.420 align:middle line:90% One of them is a button opener. 00:14:23.420 --> 00:14:27.530 align:middle line:84% I've also used Dragon dictate for a little while. 00:14:27.530 --> 00:14:30.560 align:middle line:84% And I think those are the two main technology 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:35.600 align:middle line:84% products that I've used and settled on using one of them. 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.400 align:middle line:90% 00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:43.280 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I kind of agree with what the others 00:14:43.280 --> 00:14:45.440 align:middle line:90% have said so far, as well. 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.960 align:middle line:84% It's kind of trial and error type thing. 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.960 align:middle line:84% And a lot of times, I find myself 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.950 align:middle line:84% kind of using tools that weren't necessarily 00:14:54.950 --> 00:15:00.230 align:middle line:84% made to be assistive technology, but they help me, so it works. 00:15:00.230 --> 00:15:03.350 align:middle line:84% One example of that is the camera on my phone. 00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:06.770 align:middle line:84% So for me, I like to be minimalist. 00:15:06.770 --> 00:15:09.890 align:middle line:84% I don't like to carry a lot of stuff with me when I go places. 00:15:09.890 --> 00:15:12.355 align:middle line:84% So usually, I just have my phone and my wallet, 00:15:12.355 --> 00:15:14.480 align:middle line:84% and I don't like to carry around a magnifying glass 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.930 align:middle line:90% or anything like that. 00:15:15.930 --> 00:15:17.650 align:middle line:84% So if I go out to eat with my friends 00:15:17.650 --> 00:15:20.150 align:middle line:84% or if I go to the shopping mall and I need to read the price 00:15:20.150 --> 00:15:22.520 align:middle line:84% tags on something, I can just pull out my phone 00:15:22.520 --> 00:15:24.980 align:middle line:84% and take a picture of whatever I want to see 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:28.010 align:middle line:84% and then use the capabilities on the phone 00:15:28.010 --> 00:15:31.610 align:middle line:84% to zoom in on it and kind of use that as a pseudo magnifying 00:15:31.610 --> 00:15:35.870 align:middle line:84% glass in the event that, most likely, 00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:37.340 align:middle line:84% I probably don't have one with me. 00:15:37.340 --> 00:15:41.520 align:middle line:90% 00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:42.175 align:middle line:90% Great. 00:15:42.175 --> 00:15:45.040 align:middle line:90% A lot of creativity there. 00:15:45.040 --> 00:15:47.700 align:middle line:90% I can certainly relate. 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:51.660 align:middle line:84% So what advice would you give engineers 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:55.440 align:middle line:84% who are designing products that could help people 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:56.430 align:middle line:90% with disabilities? 00:15:56.430 --> 00:16:01.040 align:middle line:90% 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:03.680 align:middle line:90% Nolan, do you want to go first? 00:16:03.680 --> 00:16:08.690 align:middle line:84% Not really, but that's sort of the order now. 00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:10.980 align:middle line:84% That's a really hard question, because-- 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.750 align:middle line:90% 00:16:13.750 --> 00:16:16.040 align:middle line:84% and I'm sure other people are going 00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:20.420 align:middle line:84% to have much better answers for this question 00:16:20.420 --> 00:16:22.130 align:middle line:90% as it gets fleshed out. 00:16:22.130 --> 00:16:27.810 align:middle line:84% But one of the things I think is really interesting-- 00:16:27.810 --> 00:16:30.560 align:middle line:90% and sort of off our last point-- 00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:38.250 align:middle line:84% is don't be so rigid about your solution 00:16:38.250 --> 00:16:41.040 align:middle line:90% that you're coming up with. 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:45.990 align:middle line:84% You might set out to solve a problem 00:16:45.990 --> 00:16:53.660 align:middle line:84% and create something that completely solves 00:16:53.660 --> 00:16:56.600 align:middle line:84% a different problem for a different subset 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:58.910 align:middle line:90% of the community, and that's OK. 00:16:58.910 --> 00:17:03.210 align:middle line:90% 00:17:03.210 --> 00:17:09.000 align:middle line:84% I think, also, another important thing is just 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:16.109 align:middle line:84% to be conscious of how many disabilities there are 00:17:16.109 --> 00:17:21.569 align:middle line:84% and how diverse those disabilities are. 00:17:21.569 --> 00:17:29.250 align:middle line:84% If you make a piece of assistive technology and only a third-- 00:17:29.250 --> 00:17:32.100 align:middle line:84% and you're only thinking about a third 00:17:32.100 --> 00:17:36.360 align:middle line:84% of the community that could use it, 00:17:36.360 --> 00:17:40.440 align:middle line:84% you're going to miss out on a lot of great user 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:44.910 align:middle line:84% experience for a lot of people who might need it. 00:17:44.910 --> 00:17:54.480 align:middle line:84% And so I hope that that wasn't so jumbled, 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.110 align:middle line:84% but hopefully, everyone else will have 00:17:58.110 --> 00:18:00.540 align:middle line:90% some better ideas than I do. 00:18:00.540 --> 00:18:10.110 align:middle line:90% 00:18:10.110 --> 00:18:12.810 align:middle line:90% That was great. 00:18:12.810 --> 00:18:13.920 align:middle line:90% Yeah. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:17.640 align:middle line:84% I think that was a pretty good answer. 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:19.350 align:middle line:84% Just to add to that, I think I would 00:18:19.350 --> 00:18:23.700 align:middle line:84% say that it is super important to think 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.850 align:middle line:84% about these types of things when you are designing 00:18:26.850 --> 00:18:29.550 align:middle line:84% new technology, like think about all the different people who 00:18:29.550 --> 00:18:31.817 align:middle line:84% could possibly use it and then more, 00:18:31.817 --> 00:18:33.900 align:middle line:84% because there's always people with different needs 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.470 align:middle line:84% that you probably never even thought about. 00:18:37.470 --> 00:18:40.580 align:middle line:84% And the reason that I think that this is so important 00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:44.750 align:middle line:84% is because the next great idea can really come from anywhere. 00:18:44.750 --> 00:18:46.980 align:middle line:84% It can come from inside anybody's mind. 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:52.110 align:middle line:84% It can come from any person, no matter what their ability is. 00:18:52.110 --> 00:18:58.400 align:middle line:84% So it's really important, I think, to allow people to use-- 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.710 align:middle line:84% or give people opportunity to use the technology 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:02.170 align:middle line:90% that we're creating. 00:19:02.170 --> 00:19:05.750 align:middle line:84% And I think the best way to do that, or one of the best ways 00:19:05.750 --> 00:19:08.390 align:middle line:84% to do that, is to actually include 00:19:08.390 --> 00:19:10.530 align:middle line:84% these people in the design process 00:19:10.530 --> 00:19:13.310 align:middle line:84% and to do user testing before you even-- 00:19:13.310 --> 00:19:16.760 align:middle line:84% or user surveys, before you even start building something, 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:18.980 align:middle line:84% to see, if you're specifically making 00:19:18.980 --> 00:19:22.160 align:middle line:84% a piece of assistive technology, what these people actually 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:23.810 align:middle line:90% want. 00:19:23.810 --> 00:19:25.940 align:middle line:84% Look at your target audience and ask 00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:27.800 align:middle line:84% them questions to see what they would 00:19:27.800 --> 00:19:29.690 align:middle line:90% like to see in this device. 00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:32.240 align:middle line:84% Because sometimes the answers may surprise you, 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:33.920 align:middle line:84% and people may not want the things 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:35.567 align:middle line:90% that you think that they want. 00:19:35.567 --> 00:19:37.400 align:middle line:84% And they may want things that you never even 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.350 align:middle line:90% thought about them wanting. 00:19:40.350 --> 00:19:45.940 align:middle line:90% So it's a delicate balance. 00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:48.060 align:middle line:84% And again, everybody's going to have 00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:50.190 align:middle line:84% their own ideas and their own creative solutions 00:19:50.190 --> 00:19:53.350 align:middle line:84% that they've come up with to try to get around these problems. 00:19:53.350 --> 00:19:55.380 align:middle line:84% So I think just talking to people 00:19:55.380 --> 00:19:59.520 align:middle line:84% and making sure to include these things while you're coming up 00:19:59.520 --> 00:20:04.080 align:middle line:84% with a design, like before things even start being built. 00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:06.930 align:middle line:84% And this goes for things that aren't specifically 00:20:06.930 --> 00:20:08.070 align:middle line:90% assistive technology. 00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:12.730 align:middle line:84% Just any sort of technology, any sort of tool, 00:20:12.730 --> 00:20:15.480 align:middle line:84% I think it's a good idea to just take 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.630 align:middle line:84% a survey of who could potentially be using this 00:20:18.630 --> 00:20:20.420 align:middle line:84% and what these different needs are 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:23.580 align:middle line:84% and making sure that all of the core 00:20:23.580 --> 00:20:27.290 align:middle line:84% needs for all the groups of people are met. 00:20:27.290 --> 00:20:30.110 align:middle line:90% 00:20:30.110 --> 00:20:34.220 align:middle line:84% I agree with both Hannah and Nolan on this. 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:36.260 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of good products come out 00:20:36.260 --> 00:20:41.330 align:middle line:84% of great ideas and people playing around with new stuff. 00:20:41.330 --> 00:20:46.640 align:middle line:84% I do want to add to that that the problem definition is 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:51.410 align:middle line:84% by far, to me, the most important part in the process. 00:20:51.410 --> 00:20:53.030 align:middle line:84% When someone decides that, well, this 00:20:53.030 --> 00:20:57.153 align:middle line:84% is a problem that we want to solve, 00:20:57.153 --> 00:20:58.570 align:middle line:84% I think that it's really important 00:20:58.570 --> 00:21:01.300 align:middle line:84% that we put a lot of effort and time 00:21:01.300 --> 00:21:04.340 align:middle line:84% into understanding what the problem is. 00:21:04.340 --> 00:21:05.870 align:middle line:90% Who does it address? 00:21:05.870 --> 00:21:08.840 align:middle line:90% Is that actually a problem? 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:13.340 align:middle line:84% If we're going to put all this effort into solving 00:21:13.340 --> 00:21:16.070 align:middle line:84% this particular problem, what is there 00:21:16.070 --> 00:21:19.043 align:middle line:84% that exists today that is already addressing 00:21:19.043 --> 00:21:20.210 align:middle line:90% the problem in certain ways? 00:21:20.210 --> 00:21:21.293 align:middle line:90% How can we make it better? 00:21:21.293 --> 00:21:23.870 align:middle line:90% 00:21:23.870 --> 00:21:26.140 align:middle line:84% Sometimes it happens that people tend 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:28.600 align:middle line:84% to start solving a problem, and then 00:21:28.600 --> 00:21:31.930 align:middle line:84% they realize that the past few months, 00:21:31.930 --> 00:21:34.300 align:middle line:84% they've spent on building something 00:21:34.300 --> 00:21:38.380 align:middle line:84% that is already out there in one way or the other. 00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:41.420 align:middle line:84% So they don't understand how we can make it better. 00:21:41.420 --> 00:21:45.340 align:middle line:84% And that is, at that point in time, 00:21:45.340 --> 00:21:47.950 align:middle line:84% if I may, a waste of time for everybody. 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.980 align:middle line:84% So it's very important that we think about the problem 00:21:51.980 --> 00:21:56.170 align:middle line:84% thoroughly, involve people who are the intended audience 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:59.020 align:middle line:84% for that product to be involved in the design process 00:21:59.020 --> 00:22:01.600 align:middle line:90% fairly early on, as Hannah said. 00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:05.050 align:middle line:84% And then go into iterations of how is it 00:22:05.050 --> 00:22:09.100 align:middle line:84% working, what can we do to improve it? 00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:11.590 align:middle line:84% And not just do the user testing at the very beginning 00:22:11.590 --> 00:22:13.780 align:middle line:84% or at the end, but also throughout the process 00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:15.050 align:middle line:90% at stages. 00:22:15.050 --> 00:22:17.200 align:middle line:84% So it's important to kind of keep track of, well, 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.520 align:middle line:90% we've built this. 00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:20.220 align:middle line:90% Are we on the right track? 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.220 align:middle line:90% How can we improve this? 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:23.530 align:middle line:84% And then go into iterations before a product 00:22:23.530 --> 00:22:24.772 align:middle line:90% gets finalized. 00:22:24.772 --> 00:22:28.710 align:middle line:90% 00:22:28.710 --> 00:22:30.210 align:middle line:90% Those are really great points. 00:22:30.210 --> 00:22:38.310 align:middle line:84% And I often think about how to talk about the definition 00:22:38.310 --> 00:22:40.410 align:middle line:90% of problems. 00:22:40.410 --> 00:22:42.480 align:middle line:84% I think a lot of non-disabled people 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:45.360 align:middle line:84% have these ideas of what the problem is 00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:46.920 align:middle line:90% for people with disabilities. 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:51.810 align:middle line:84% They think, oh, well, this person uses a wheelchair, 00:22:51.810 --> 00:22:55.510 align:middle line:84% so they obviously have this problem. 00:22:55.510 --> 00:22:58.740 align:middle line:84% And oftentimes, when I have conversations with people, 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:01.020 align:middle line:84% I say, well, that's not really a problem for me. 00:23:01.020 --> 00:23:02.610 align:middle line:90% Maybe it is for somebody else. 00:23:02.610 --> 00:23:06.450 align:middle line:84% But really, what's more important to me is this. 00:23:06.450 --> 00:23:10.650 align:middle line:84% And so we're very quick to make assumptions 00:23:10.650 --> 00:23:15.690 align:middle line:84% about what problems are and what needs to be solved. 00:23:15.690 --> 00:23:19.590 align:middle line:84% Sometimes there isn't a problem where you think there is one. 00:23:19.590 --> 00:23:23.325 align:middle line:84% So I think that's a really good point. 00:23:23.325 --> 00:23:27.120 align:middle line:90% 00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:34.080 align:middle line:84% So another question I wanted to ask is, with the assumptions 00:23:34.080 --> 00:23:38.160 align:middle line:84% in mind, are there any struggles or problems 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.550 align:middle line:84% that you come up with throughout the day that maybe you 00:23:41.550 --> 00:23:44.760 align:middle line:84% think something could be created or altered to make 00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:48.060 align:middle line:90% it a little bit easier for you? 00:23:48.060 --> 00:23:51.540 align:middle line:84% Like, for example, my answer is always 00:23:51.540 --> 00:23:53.570 align:middle line:90% my biggest struggle is doors. 00:23:53.570 --> 00:23:55.440 align:middle line:90% I really hate doors. 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.250 align:middle line:84% And I actually choose which coffee 00:23:59.250 --> 00:24:03.150 align:middle line:84% shop that I go to in the morning based on the door. 00:24:03.150 --> 00:24:09.060 align:middle line:84% So I go to a specific Starbucks that the door opens and closes 00:24:09.060 --> 00:24:09.730 align:middle line:90% both ways. 00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:12.030 align:middle line:84% So I can push to get in, push to get out. 00:24:12.030 --> 00:24:14.880 align:middle line:84% So I wish that door hinges could be different. 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.490 align:middle line:84% That's what I wish that I could change 00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:22.470 align:middle line:84% that would help my day-to-day struggles with my disability. 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:27.060 align:middle line:84% So do any of you have any ideas or things 00:24:27.060 --> 00:24:28.470 align:middle line:90% you would want made better? 00:24:28.470 --> 00:24:31.890 align:middle line:90% 00:24:31.890 --> 00:24:35.250 align:middle line:90% I guess I'm up again. 00:24:35.250 --> 00:24:40.980 align:middle line:84% It's hard to sort of point out specific things, 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:47.490 align:middle line:84% just because again, you deal with it so often that you're 00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:51.330 align:middle line:84% dealing with minor things throughout the day where you're 00:24:51.330 --> 00:24:56.820 align:middle line:84% like, wow, they could have changed this just a little bit 00:24:56.820 --> 00:25:00.330 align:middle line:84% and made my life 1,000 times easier 00:25:00.330 --> 00:25:03.850 align:middle line:84% in that specific interaction there. 00:25:03.850 --> 00:25:07.080 align:middle line:90% 00:25:07.080 --> 00:25:12.720 align:middle line:84% I think one of the things I've struggled with and a lot 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.450 align:middle line:84% of people I know have struggled with-- 00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:19.590 align:middle line:84% and please correct me if I'm wrong-- 00:25:19.590 --> 00:25:25.440 align:middle line:84% is many of my disabled peers struggle 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:34.200 align:middle line:84% with getting dressed, as well as I struggle with, 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:39.270 align:middle line:84% and I'm sure other people struggle with, making food. 00:25:39.270 --> 00:25:45.870 align:middle line:84% And so those are two very central things-- 00:25:45.870 --> 00:25:50.580 align:middle line:84% super basic, but very central parts 00:25:50.580 --> 00:25:55.710 align:middle line:90% of living in the 21st century. 00:25:55.710 --> 00:26:04.605 align:middle line:84% And they're not-- everyone on this call is dressed, I think. 00:26:04.605 --> 00:26:08.010 align:middle line:90% 00:26:08.010 --> 00:26:11.565 align:middle line:90% But it's hard to-- 00:26:11.565 --> 00:26:14.670 align:middle line:90% 00:26:14.670 --> 00:26:19.780 align:middle line:84% so everyone on this call has figured it out. 00:26:19.780 --> 00:26:25.860 align:middle line:84% But the amount of hurdles that people go through 00:26:25.860 --> 00:26:37.510 align:middle line:84% to figure it out are different and often sort of unfair 00:26:37.510 --> 00:26:38.750 align:middle line:90% would be my answer to that. 00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:50.145 align:middle line:90% 00:26:50.145 --> 00:26:50.645 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:26:50.645 --> 00:26:54.080 align:middle line:90% 00:26:54.080 --> 00:26:56.820 align:middle line:90% That's a good question. 00:26:56.820 --> 00:27:01.610 align:middle line:84% I think, for me, the biggest thing-- it's kind of simple, 00:27:01.610 --> 00:27:03.950 align:middle line:84% but I would like it so that I don't 00:27:03.950 --> 00:27:07.310 align:middle line:84% have to use two hands to use my phone. 00:27:07.310 --> 00:27:11.600 align:middle line:84% Because I use zoom on my phone, so when I have the zoom on, 00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:15.050 align:middle line:84% I have to double-tap and then move it around with one hand 00:27:15.050 --> 00:27:17.570 align:middle line:84% and hold the phone with the other hand. 00:27:17.570 --> 00:27:20.780 align:middle line:84% So if I'm carrying things or something, 00:27:20.780 --> 00:27:22.140 align:middle line:90% I often can't use my phone. 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:24.140 align:middle line:84% If I'm walking down the street, it's really hard 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:27.620 align:middle line:84% to navigate with Google Maps if I'm also, for example, 00:27:27.620 --> 00:27:30.560 align:middle line:84% helping my friend move her into a new apartment. 00:27:30.560 --> 00:27:32.780 align:middle line:90% I don't have a free hand. 00:27:32.780 --> 00:27:36.320 align:middle line:84% I can't use both my hands to use my phone. 00:27:36.320 --> 00:27:41.445 align:middle line:84% So it would be really cool if there is a way that I-- 00:27:41.445 --> 00:27:43.070 align:middle line:84% most people who don't have to use zoom, 00:27:43.070 --> 00:27:45.695 align:middle line:84% they could just pull their phone out of their pocket and glance 00:27:45.695 --> 00:27:48.260 align:middle line:84% at it to see if they're going in the right direction 00:27:48.260 --> 00:27:50.720 align:middle line:90% or who messaged them. 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.480 align:middle line:84% But for me, I would have to stop, put everything down, take 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.210 align:middle line:84% out my phone, zoom in, see what the things said, 00:27:56.210 --> 00:27:58.490 align:middle line:84% pick everything back up, and keep walking. 00:27:58.490 --> 00:28:02.180 align:middle line:84% So it's a simple thing, but it would make 00:28:02.180 --> 00:28:03.480 align:middle line:90% a lot of things a lot easier. 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:06.410 align:middle line:84% But again, like Nolan said, you kind of just 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:09.628 align:middle line:90% figure it out and deal with it. 00:28:09.628 --> 00:28:11.420 align:middle line:84% But it would definitely make things easier. 00:28:11.420 --> 00:28:14.492 align:middle line:90% 00:28:14.492 --> 00:28:15.950 align:middle line:84% I would definitely agree with that. 00:28:15.950 --> 00:28:19.630 align:middle line:84% I think one of the superpowers that people with disabilities 00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:24.730 align:middle line:84% have is that we adapt things really fast 00:28:24.730 --> 00:28:28.420 align:middle line:84% based on whatever's around us, whatever surrounds us. 00:28:28.420 --> 00:28:29.290 align:middle line:90% We make use of it. 00:28:29.290 --> 00:28:30.582 align:middle line:90% We learn how to do it. 00:28:30.582 --> 00:28:32.290 align:middle line:84% I would very much like to live in a world 00:28:32.290 --> 00:28:34.300 align:middle line:90% where there were no stairs. 00:28:34.300 --> 00:28:38.380 align:middle line:84% And we could just, I don't know, levitate 00:28:38.380 --> 00:28:40.420 align:middle line:90% into a building or something. 00:28:40.420 --> 00:28:46.510 align:middle line:84% But not having push buttons has been a problem 00:28:46.510 --> 00:28:49.430 align:middle line:90% for me getting in and out. 00:28:49.430 --> 00:28:54.310 align:middle line:84% And I've been at places where the definition 00:28:54.310 --> 00:28:58.420 align:middle line:84% of accessibility, especially in Europe, 00:28:58.420 --> 00:29:01.510 align:middle line:84% is four people lifting you up, putting you 00:29:01.510 --> 00:29:04.210 align:middle line:90% through a flight of stairs. 00:29:04.210 --> 00:29:07.010 align:middle line:84% And it doesn't matter how much you weigh, doesn't matter 00:29:07.010 --> 00:29:10.310 align:middle line:90% how much the chair weighs. 00:29:10.310 --> 00:29:14.060 align:middle line:84% There's no ramp, and there's no push button. 00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:18.230 align:middle line:84% So heavy doors, stairs have been a major hindrance 00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:21.320 align:middle line:90% to getting to places. 00:29:21.320 --> 00:29:27.190 align:middle line:84% And it's really good to see that being 00:29:27.190 --> 00:29:29.200 align:middle line:84% at University of Washington, we have 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:31.060 align:middle line:90% those push buttons installed. 00:29:31.060 --> 00:29:34.990 align:middle line:90% So it's easier to get in. 00:29:34.990 --> 00:29:37.240 align:middle line:84% But out in older cities, older buildings, 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.720 align:middle line:90% it's just really tough. 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:42.610 align:middle line:84% Similarly for elevators, as well. 00:29:42.610 --> 00:29:47.630 align:middle line:90% 00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:50.090 align:middle line:84% I just want to jump in, because I saw something yesterday. 00:29:50.090 --> 00:29:53.840 align:middle line:84% Ather, you mentioned stairs, and I saw this really great example 00:29:53.840 --> 00:29:57.440 align:middle line:84% of stairs that had been designed with this idea 00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:58.170 align:middle line:90% of accessibility. 00:29:58.170 --> 00:29:59.253 align:middle line:90% So it was a set of stairs. 00:29:59.253 --> 00:30:01.370 align:middle line:90% It's in Vancouver. 00:30:01.370 --> 00:30:05.870 align:middle line:84% And there's a ramp zigzagging across the stairs, which 00:30:05.870 --> 00:30:10.840 align:middle line:84% seems like a really cool way to work the ramp in so that it 00:30:10.840 --> 00:30:12.058 align:middle line:90% was attractive. 00:30:12.058 --> 00:30:14.600 align:middle line:84% It wasn't a big ramp jutting out that looked like an addition 00:30:14.600 --> 00:30:16.760 align:middle line:90% and an afterthought. 00:30:16.760 --> 00:30:19.850 align:middle line:84% But then a lot of the reaction from people with disabilities 00:30:19.850 --> 00:30:21.350 align:middle line:84% was, well, the designer was trying 00:30:21.350 --> 00:30:24.530 align:middle line:84% to think about disability, but as a wheelchair user, 00:30:24.530 --> 00:30:26.630 align:middle line:84% they might be worried about accidentally going off 00:30:26.630 --> 00:30:30.500 align:middle line:84% the side of the ramp and getting a wheel stuck on a step. 00:30:30.500 --> 00:30:32.510 align:middle line:84% Or a person with a visual impairment 00:30:32.510 --> 00:30:35.060 align:middle line:84% maybe can't see that those steps are uneven heights, 00:30:35.060 --> 00:30:37.670 align:middle line:84% because some of them are only a couple inches because the ramp 00:30:37.670 --> 00:30:39.160 align:middle line:90% cuts across the steps. 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.285 align:middle line:84% It was this really interesting example of somewhere 00:30:41.285 --> 00:30:44.480 align:middle line:84% where somebody tried to think about accessibility 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.190 align:middle line:84% but didn't engage with people with disabilities. 00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:50.030 align:middle line:84% And so it wasn't actually a great staircase 00:30:50.030 --> 00:30:52.942 align:middle line:84% at the end in terms of serving a bunch of people. 00:30:52.942 --> 00:30:55.400 align:middle line:84% You know, you couldn't even have handrails that went up it, 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:58.580 align:middle line:84% because if you had a handrail, it would cut off the ramp. 00:30:58.580 --> 00:31:00.530 align:middle line:84% And of course, the worst part was the ramp 00:31:00.530 --> 00:31:02.240 align:middle line:84% isn't very useful, because it was way 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:06.740 align:middle line:84% too steep, given that it was trying to follow the steps. 00:31:06.740 --> 00:31:09.632 align:middle line:84% So I guess part of my question is whether you all 00:31:09.632 --> 00:31:11.090 align:middle line:84% have examples of things that you've 00:31:11.090 --> 00:31:13.520 align:middle line:84% seen where folks have tried to do some really 00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:17.150 align:middle line:84% great thing for accessibility, but if they had engaged 00:31:17.150 --> 00:31:19.160 align:middle line:84% with people with disabilities, might have 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:20.480 align:middle line:90% had a more successful product? 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:25.260 align:middle line:90% 00:31:25.260 --> 00:31:26.310 align:middle line:90% Absolutely. 00:31:26.310 --> 00:31:30.630 align:middle line:84% I saw that one, as well, and I had some very similar thoughts. 00:31:30.630 --> 00:31:32.130 align:middle line:84% I was very focused on the handrails. 00:31:32.130 --> 00:31:34.530 align:middle line:84% And if somebody was in a manual chair, 00:31:34.530 --> 00:31:37.897 align:middle line:84% this is a lot of pushing to going zigzag. 00:31:37.897 --> 00:31:39.480 align:middle line:84% It's almost like taking a dance class. 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:44.660 align:middle line:90% 00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:54.520 align:middle line:84% We generally see that a lot in terms of digital accessibility, 00:31:54.520 --> 00:32:00.920 align:middle line:84% where somebody tried really hard to make something so accessible 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.050 align:middle line:84% that, for anybody else, it just didn't work at all. 00:32:05.050 --> 00:32:11.720 align:middle line:90% 00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:14.450 align:middle line:84% We give examples of, generally, when 00:32:14.450 --> 00:32:17.150 align:middle line:84% people are designing things on the web, 00:32:17.150 --> 00:32:22.210 align:middle line:84% they would talk about colorblindness, 00:32:22.210 --> 00:32:25.730 align:middle line:84% but they would completely miss out 00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:34.167 align:middle line:84% the part where somebody could just not see that at all. 00:32:34.167 --> 00:32:35.750 align:middle line:84% So they would consider their solutions 00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:38.150 align:middle line:84% as accessible by saying that, yes, we included 00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:41.360 align:middle line:84% all of these contrasting colors, but they 00:32:41.360 --> 00:32:45.020 align:middle line:84% don't address those problems in terms of somebody who uses 00:32:45.020 --> 00:32:47.080 align:middle line:90% a screen reader, for example. 00:32:47.080 --> 00:32:52.430 align:middle line:84% So the entire web is full of elements like that. 00:32:52.430 --> 00:33:03.290 align:middle line:84% In terms of physical accessibility, 00:33:03.290 --> 00:33:05.150 align:middle line:84% I just came back from a trip from Philly. 00:33:05.150 --> 00:33:08.820 align:middle line:90% And I was in a new building. 00:33:08.820 --> 00:33:10.970 align:middle line:84% And turns out that they put the push button 00:33:10.970 --> 00:33:14.460 align:middle line:90% on one side and not the other. 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:19.060 align:middle line:84% So basically, for you to come from the other side, 00:33:19.060 --> 00:33:22.270 align:middle line:84% you have to go up the stairs and then push the press button-- 00:33:22.270 --> 00:33:24.725 align:middle line:84% press the push button and then come up. 00:33:24.725 --> 00:33:26.350 align:middle line:84% So things like that happen quite often, 00:33:26.350 --> 00:33:31.050 align:middle line:84% where people do not consult people with disabilities 00:33:31.050 --> 00:33:32.500 align:middle line:90% or test them out. 00:33:32.500 --> 00:33:36.090 align:middle line:84% So it ends up being a checkmark on the list, which 00:33:36.090 --> 00:33:37.440 align:middle line:90% is not tested. 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:39.153 align:middle line:84% And it ends up not working for people. 00:33:39.153 --> 00:33:43.690 align:middle line:90% 00:33:43.690 --> 00:33:46.370 align:middle line:84% Sorry, I just want to chime in on this, 00:33:46.370 --> 00:33:50.660 align:middle line:84% because I hear this specific rant being talked about a lot. 00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:53.140 align:middle line:84% And I just wanted to talk about this from an advocacy 00:33:53.140 --> 00:33:55.600 align:middle line:90% perspective. 00:33:55.600 --> 00:33:57.850 align:middle line:84% The one that's usually canonically referred to 00:33:57.850 --> 00:34:03.760 align:middle line:84% is in Vancouver, and Brianna posted this post 00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:08.320 align:middle line:84% by [INAUDIBLE] in the group chat. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:12.250 align:middle line:84% It was designed in 1978 and built in the early '80s, 00:34:12.250 --> 00:34:16.570 align:middle line:84% so before there was ADA, before there were any metrics 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:22.929 align:middle line:84% or standards, before even the term universal design was 00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:23.800 align:middle line:90% a thing. 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:28.989 align:middle line:84% So when this comes up, there's the idea to say, 00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:31.310 align:middle line:84% oh, this was meant to be like a universal design. 00:34:31.310 --> 00:34:32.585 align:middle line:90% It wasn't. 00:34:32.585 --> 00:34:34.929 align:middle line:84% It was before any of that had been done. 00:34:34.929 --> 00:34:37.270 align:middle line:84% And people have taken that and said, oh, this 00:34:37.270 --> 00:34:39.100 align:middle line:90% is great universal design. 00:34:39.100 --> 00:34:42.270 align:middle line:84% And that's the problem that we have to push back on. 00:34:42.270 --> 00:34:45.880 align:middle line:84% People see this and say, I want to emulate this. 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:48.760 align:middle line:84% And that's the opportunity to start talking about, 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.989 align:middle line:84% this is exactly the wrong way to go about this. 00:34:52.989 --> 00:34:58.450 align:middle line:84% When you try to emulate these things that are unrelated, 00:34:58.450 --> 00:35:01.120 align:middle line:84% then you're only making problems worse. 00:35:01.120 --> 00:35:04.660 align:middle line:84% We only ever get better by actually integrating 00:35:04.660 --> 00:35:08.830 align:middle line:84% the disabled users in the process of the design 00:35:08.830 --> 00:35:09.907 align:middle line:90% from the beginning. 00:35:09.907 --> 00:35:12.748 align:middle line:90% 00:35:12.748 --> 00:35:13.290 align:middle line:90% Thanks, Matt. 00:35:13.290 --> 00:35:14.165 align:middle line:90% That's a great point. 00:35:14.165 --> 00:35:17.100 align:middle line:90% 00:35:17.100 --> 00:35:21.270 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I've always wanted to see those stairs in person. 00:35:21.270 --> 00:35:25.400 align:middle line:84% And when I first looked at the picture of that-- 00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:27.070 align:middle line:90% and it really is visual. 00:35:27.070 --> 00:35:30.690 align:middle line:84% There's something visual about it that's very appealing, 00:35:30.690 --> 00:35:34.530 align:middle line:84% which is the main thing that I have to-- 00:35:34.530 --> 00:35:37.380 align:middle line:84% I feel like when I'm talking to designers, 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:43.140 align:middle line:84% they also want their end product to look appealing to people. 00:35:43.140 --> 00:35:46.380 align:middle line:84% And they think, oh, well a ramp isn't 00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:49.590 align:middle line:84% as impressive as a flight of stairs. 00:35:49.590 --> 00:35:53.700 align:middle line:84% And so the intent was definitely there 00:35:53.700 --> 00:35:58.230 align:middle line:84% to maybe make it look appealing, as well. 00:35:58.230 --> 00:36:03.288 align:middle line:84% But there is a way they could have done that better. 00:36:03.288 --> 00:36:04.830 align:middle line:84% I've always wanted to see the stairs. 00:36:04.830 --> 00:36:08.260 align:middle line:84% I don't think I would use them, use those particular stairs. 00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:14.040 align:middle line:84% But I can see myself just kind of like not 00:36:14.040 --> 00:36:17.740 align:middle line:84% being able to see it very well and falling off. 00:36:17.740 --> 00:36:20.740 align:middle line:84% But yeah, I do think that's a really great example, Brianna. 00:36:20.740 --> 00:36:28.000 align:middle line:90% 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.130 align:middle line:90% Any other thoughts on that? 00:36:29.130 --> 00:36:32.620 align:middle line:90% 00:36:32.620 --> 00:36:35.270 align:middle line:90% So out of curiosity-- 00:36:35.270 --> 00:36:37.870 align:middle line:90% and anyone can jump in on this-- 00:36:37.870 --> 00:36:42.760 align:middle line:84% are there any tools that were created for non-disabled people 00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:47.680 align:middle line:84% that you use in everyday life, specifically for something 00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:50.680 align:middle line:90% disability related? 00:36:50.680 --> 00:36:53.920 align:middle line:84% I can share an example, slightly embarrassing. 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.120 align:middle line:84% But I got a dog a couple years ago, 00:36:58.120 --> 00:37:02.260 align:middle line:84% and I was trying out various Pooper Scoopers. 00:37:02.260 --> 00:37:05.530 align:middle line:84% And they have some for people with arthritis 00:37:05.530 --> 00:37:09.190 align:middle line:90% and can't lean down to do that. 00:37:09.190 --> 00:37:12.460 align:middle line:84% And I bought one, and I loved it so much-- 00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:16.750 align:middle line:84% not for that, but for picking other things up off my floor. 00:37:16.750 --> 00:37:21.243 align:middle line:84% So I now only use it for in my home 00:37:21.243 --> 00:37:23.410 align:middle line:84% when I'm trying to pick up something that I dropped. 00:37:23.410 --> 00:37:28.420 align:middle line:84% Because I can't use the claws that you 00:37:28.420 --> 00:37:30.910 align:middle line:90% have to squeeze to operate. 00:37:30.910 --> 00:37:33.760 align:middle line:84% So I had to find something different 00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:37.480 align:middle line:84% that I didn't have to have any strong muscles to use. 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:41.470 align:middle line:84% So that's always the one that people make fun of me about, 00:37:41.470 --> 00:37:46.990 align:middle line:84% is using a Pooper Scooper in my home. 00:37:46.990 --> 00:37:50.230 align:middle line:84% Do any of you guys have examples of things you use? 00:37:50.230 --> 00:38:00.280 align:middle line:90% 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.510 align:middle line:84% Nothing I would especially want to share, 00:38:04.510 --> 00:38:09.980 align:middle line:84% nor do I think you guys want to hear comes to mind. 00:38:09.980 --> 00:38:16.000 align:middle line:84% But I do use things like that in my daily life. 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:20.400 align:middle line:90% 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:26.940 align:middle line:84% Like I was saying, sometimes you're just sort of in a jam, 00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:29.580 align:middle line:84% quite literally with your pants down, 00:38:29.580 --> 00:38:33.360 align:middle line:84% and you have to sort of reach for whatever you 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:37.680 align:middle line:90% have at arm's length. 00:38:37.680 --> 00:38:41.460 align:middle line:84% And for me, with arthrogryposis, arm's length 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:48.540 align:middle line:84% is quite a bit more restricting than someone else's arms 00:38:48.540 --> 00:38:49.410 align:middle line:90% length. 00:38:49.410 --> 00:38:55.290 align:middle line:84% So you just have to make do with a nearby doorknob 00:38:55.290 --> 00:39:08.720 align:middle line:84% to help getting dressed or whatever you can sort of find. 00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:12.860 align:middle line:84% Again, it's hard to think of anything that comes 00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:16.970 align:middle line:90% to mind that I use regularly. 00:39:16.970 --> 00:39:22.480 align:middle line:84% But there's plenty of things that I'll just grab and be 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.760 align:middle line:90% like, I wonder if this will-- 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.331 align:middle line:84% if I can reach where I need with this tool. 00:39:30.331 --> 00:39:40.440 align:middle line:90% 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.740 align:middle line:84% For me, I think I already mentioned my phone 00:39:43.740 --> 00:39:47.020 align:middle line:84% and using that to double as a magnifying glass, 00:39:47.020 --> 00:39:52.560 align:middle line:84% even though it definitely was not made to do that. 00:39:52.560 --> 00:39:57.790 align:middle line:84% There's just a lot of other apps that I use on my phone, too, 00:39:57.790 --> 00:39:58.560 align:middle line:90% I think. 00:39:58.560 --> 00:40:02.760 align:middle line:84% Some of them are made to be accessibility tools, 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:04.530 align:middle line:84% like an app called Read To Go, which 00:40:04.530 --> 00:40:10.140 align:middle line:84% I use to read books or textbooks, often. 00:40:10.140 --> 00:40:14.670 align:middle line:84% And some are just, I don't know, helpful 00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:19.130 align:middle line:84% apps to have that I'm not really sure if they were meant 00:40:19.130 --> 00:40:24.950 align:middle line:84% to be an assistive technology thing to begin with, 00:40:24.950 --> 00:40:30.210 align:middle line:90% but are nice anyway. 00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:36.150 align:middle line:84% And I think something else that I do is for me-- 00:40:36.150 --> 00:40:38.880 align:middle line:84% again, this is totally not something 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:40.990 align:middle line:84% that was made to be an assistive technology. 00:40:40.990 --> 00:40:44.730 align:middle line:84% But I really like those brightly colored folders, 00:40:44.730 --> 00:40:48.570 align:middle line:84% because then I can use those to organize my different papers 00:40:48.570 --> 00:40:51.198 align:middle line:90% or files or that kind of thing. 00:40:51.198 --> 00:40:52.740 align:middle line:84% And that way, for me, I just remember 00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:56.740 align:middle line:84% what color I put different categories of stuff in. 00:40:56.740 --> 00:40:58.350 align:middle line:84% And even just different colored boxes 00:40:58.350 --> 00:41:01.470 align:middle line:84% or different colored containers or anything, 00:41:01.470 --> 00:41:03.540 align:middle line:84% like when I'm putting food away in the fridge. 00:41:03.540 --> 00:41:04.957 align:middle line:84% Because then I don't actually have 00:41:04.957 --> 00:41:07.740 align:middle line:84% to go and try to read the label on the thing 00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:11.340 align:middle line:84% to see what it is or actually like go and pull it out, like 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:13.680 align:middle line:84% an object in a box out to inspect 00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:17.070 align:middle line:84% it to make sure that I know that I'm in the right place. 00:41:17.070 --> 00:41:19.830 align:middle line:84% I just remember the color and can find things that way. 00:41:19.830 --> 00:41:26.690 align:middle line:90% 00:41:26.690 --> 00:41:31.710 align:middle line:84% I do have a shameless plug, because I worked for Comcast. 00:41:31.710 --> 00:41:39.050 align:middle line:84% The Comcast remote, the Xfinity remote, was actually just-- 00:41:39.050 --> 00:41:40.910 align:middle line:84% the voice remote, as they call it, 00:41:40.910 --> 00:41:46.250 align:middle line:84% was just designed just because voice was a cool feature. 00:41:46.250 --> 00:41:49.730 align:middle line:84% And now it is one of the major marketing strategies for them 00:41:49.730 --> 00:41:51.800 align:middle line:90% in terms of accessibility. 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.440 align:middle line:84% So it wasn't made thinking about, OK, well, this 00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:57.710 align:middle line:84% will help other people who will find the buttons really 00:41:57.710 --> 00:42:01.070 align:middle line:90% hard to press or who would-- 00:42:01.070 --> 00:42:06.720 align:middle line:84% it would be easier for them to use the voice. 00:42:06.720 --> 00:42:09.920 align:middle line:84% So things like that, tools like that have helped me 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:11.870 align:middle line:84% tremendously, by not pressing all the buttons 00:42:11.870 --> 00:42:16.310 align:middle line:84% and going through channels, but just interacting with the TV 00:42:16.310 --> 00:42:20.630 align:middle line:84% without having to press more buttons. 00:42:20.630 --> 00:42:23.390 align:middle line:84% And things like that, I think, are really helpful, 00:42:23.390 --> 00:42:27.290 align:middle line:84% because they weren't designed in an assistive technology 00:42:27.290 --> 00:42:30.170 align:middle line:84% and accessibility manner, but they but they 00:42:30.170 --> 00:42:37.900 align:middle line:84% do help us a lot in performing daily life activities. 00:42:37.900 --> 00:42:40.548 align:middle line:84% LA called out in chat the read-aloud feature in Word. 00:42:40.548 --> 00:42:42.090 align:middle line:84% She says, I don't think this was made 00:42:42.090 --> 00:42:44.810 align:middle line:84% for people with disabilities, but it helps me when I can't m 00:42:44.810 --> 00:42:46.935 align:middle line:84% but I can still see broad shapes and paragraphs. 00:42:46.935 --> 00:42:49.560 align:middle line:84% It's much easier and faster for me to use than a regular screen 00:42:49.560 --> 00:42:54.160 align:middle line:84% reader, but it still allows me to read long texts. 00:42:54.160 --> 00:42:59.910 align:middle line:84% So similar sort of story to what Ather was suggesting. 00:42:59.910 --> 00:43:03.860 align:middle line:90% Yeah, that's great. 00:43:03.860 --> 00:43:06.230 align:middle line:84% So I have more questions I can ask the panelists, 00:43:06.230 --> 00:43:10.400 align:middle line:84% but I want to throw it out there to anyone 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:12.350 align:middle line:90% who's on the call with us. 00:43:12.350 --> 00:43:16.550 align:middle line:84% If you have any questions, feel free to let 00:43:16.550 --> 00:43:18.160 align:middle line:90% me know or shout it out now. 00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:24.530 align:middle line:90% 00:43:24.530 --> 00:43:28.960 align:middle line:84% I know, it's always hard on a phone call or a webinar. 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:29.870 align:middle line:90% Well, let me know. 00:43:29.870 --> 00:43:32.950 align:middle line:84% Do put it in the text or let us know somehow 00:43:32.950 --> 00:43:37.270 align:middle line:90% if you want to ask questions. 00:43:37.270 --> 00:43:40.900 align:middle line:84% So we're hearing a lot about people 00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:42.880 align:middle line:84% with disabilities needing to be creative 00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:46.720 align:middle line:84% and maybe using tools that weren't developed specifically 00:43:46.720 --> 00:43:49.030 align:middle line:84% for people with disabilities to help them. 00:43:49.030 --> 00:43:54.040 align:middle line:90% 00:43:54.040 --> 00:43:57.190 align:middle line:84% We talked about strategies for engineers 00:43:57.190 --> 00:43:59.080 align:middle line:84% to talk with people with disabilities, 00:43:59.080 --> 00:44:01.120 align:middle line:84% but is there anything specifically 00:44:01.120 --> 00:44:04.240 align:middle line:84% that you would want an engineer to know 00:44:04.240 --> 00:44:07.210 align:middle line:90% about you or your disability? 00:44:07.210 --> 00:44:10.360 align:middle line:84% Is there anything you'd want to share with them, just 00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:15.400 align:middle line:84% in general, about you if they're working on products that 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:16.870 align:middle line:90% help people with disabilities? 00:44:16.870 --> 00:44:21.810 align:middle line:90% 00:44:21.810 --> 00:44:25.590 align:middle line:84% Sorry, I sort of jumped in just because I know the order here. 00:44:25.590 --> 00:44:29.280 align:middle line:90% 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:35.880 align:middle line:84% I think one of the important things that 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:45.330 align:middle line:84% sort of become a theme of this call is don't assume things. 00:44:45.330 --> 00:44:51.510 align:middle line:84% And that's through no fault of the engineers. 00:44:51.510 --> 00:44:56.250 align:middle line:84% I'm sure everyone in engineering is super smart. 00:44:56.250 --> 00:44:58.230 align:middle line:90% I know I can't-- 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:02.700 align:middle line:84% I'm not smart enough to be an engineer. 00:45:02.700 --> 00:45:10.560 align:middle line:84% But I think they just don't have the life experience, 00:45:10.560 --> 00:45:11.325 align:middle line:90% and they're not-- 00:45:11.325 --> 00:45:15.960 align:middle line:90% 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:24.000 align:middle line:84% there's no sort of media presence around accessibility. 00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.670 align:middle line:84% We were sort of talking about this right 00:45:26.670 --> 00:45:31.470 align:middle line:90% before everyone got on. 00:45:31.470 --> 00:45:42.210 align:middle line:84% There's just so few examples of good media coverage 00:45:42.210 --> 00:45:47.150 align:middle line:84% around accessibility that it's hard to get 00:45:47.150 --> 00:45:51.330 align:middle line:84% a view into the life of someone with a disability 00:45:51.330 --> 00:45:54.300 align:middle line:90% as a casual observer. 00:45:54.300 --> 00:45:59.490 align:middle line:84% And so when you're doing this, you really 00:45:59.490 --> 00:46:07.020 align:middle line:84% need to do your homework and do a deep dive into the community. 00:46:07.020 --> 00:46:15.930 align:middle line:84% Because the media isn't going to help you as much as I think 00:46:15.930 --> 00:46:21.210 align:middle line:90% it would in a different context. 00:46:21.210 --> 00:46:23.100 align:middle line:84% And so that would be my advice, is 00:46:23.100 --> 00:46:28.130 align:middle line:84% just you're going to have to do a little more homework. 00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:33.108 align:middle line:84% And I'm sorry, but that's where we're at right now. 00:46:33.108 --> 00:46:39.070 align:middle line:90% 00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:42.790 align:middle line:84% Yeah, I agree with that, definitely. 00:46:42.790 --> 00:46:47.380 align:middle line:84% I think, yeah, doing research and talking 00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:49.900 align:middle line:84% to people is going to be the most helpful. 00:46:49.900 --> 00:46:52.270 align:middle line:84% I think for me, personally, if there's something 00:46:52.270 --> 00:46:55.990 align:middle line:84% that I would want an engineer to know about me as they're 00:46:55.990 --> 00:46:57.970 align:middle line:90% designing things is-- 00:46:57.970 --> 00:46:59.930 align:middle line:84% maybe it's not even about me specifically. 00:46:59.930 --> 00:47:03.460 align:middle line:84% But just the fact that there is a spectrum of blindness. 00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:06.580 align:middle line:84% And just because somebody uses a white cane 00:47:06.580 --> 00:47:10.070 align:middle line:84% doesn't mean that they can't see anything. 00:47:10.070 --> 00:47:13.900 align:middle line:84% So for me, whenever I have use my cane, 00:47:13.900 --> 00:47:19.600 align:middle line:84% people always assume that I'm able to see anything 00:47:19.600 --> 00:47:20.890 align:middle line:90% about where I'm going. 00:47:20.890 --> 00:47:24.250 align:middle line:84% And when I do go in for some accessibility interviews 00:47:24.250 --> 00:47:27.460 align:middle line:84% or these pre-user studies, there's 00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:30.310 align:middle line:84% a lot of just initial assumptions that are made. 00:47:30.310 --> 00:47:33.640 align:middle line:84% But in reality, for me, I can actually see a fair amount. 00:47:33.640 --> 00:47:37.190 align:middle line:84% I just don't have great depth perception. 00:47:37.190 --> 00:47:41.280 align:middle line:84% So just because somebody says that they're blind 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.830 align:middle line:84% or someone says that they're legally blind or visually 00:47:43.830 --> 00:47:45.810 align:middle line:84% impaired, that doesn't necessarily 00:47:45.810 --> 00:47:49.860 align:middle line:84% mean that they fit into the same box or the same category. 00:47:49.860 --> 00:47:53.850 align:middle line:84% There's a lot of different ways people still 00:47:53.850 --> 00:47:56.430 align:middle line:84% can sense the world visually, potentially, 00:47:56.430 --> 00:47:59.850 align:middle line:90% even if they use a cane or not. 00:47:59.850 --> 00:48:03.210 align:middle line:84% Again, it's a spectrum, from one end to the other. 00:48:03.210 --> 00:48:04.920 align:middle line:90% And just keeping that in mind. 00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:08.250 align:middle line:90% 00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:09.810 align:middle line:84% People everywhere on that spectrum 00:48:09.810 --> 00:48:11.185 align:middle line:84% are going to have different needs 00:48:11.185 --> 00:48:17.680 align:middle line:84% and are going to have different wants for whatever device 00:48:17.680 --> 00:48:21.530 align:middle line:84% or whatever new, cool assistive technology is being created. 00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:23.890 align:middle line:84% So it's important, if you want it 00:48:23.890 --> 00:48:29.050 align:middle line:84% to be used by a lot of people, to design for that spectrum 00:48:29.050 --> 00:48:31.720 align:middle line:84% and not for just one specific part of it, 00:48:31.720 --> 00:48:33.920 align:middle line:84% unless you are targeting one specific part of it. 00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.203 align:middle line:84% Then, by all means, talk to those people 00:48:36.203 --> 00:48:37.620 align:middle line:84% and understand that it's not going 00:48:37.620 --> 00:48:39.720 align:middle line:90% to be used for everybody else. 00:48:39.720 --> 00:48:42.970 align:middle line:90% 00:48:42.970 --> 00:48:43.820 align:middle line:90% I agree with that. 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:48.710 align:middle line:84% I think one thing that Hannah mentioned 00:48:48.710 --> 00:48:51.250 align:middle line:84% I think is really spot on, very important as well, 00:48:51.250 --> 00:48:54.550 align:middle line:84% is that we start seeing ability as a spectrum 00:48:54.550 --> 00:48:59.310 align:middle line:84% instead of living it, instead of making it 00:48:59.310 --> 00:49:02.080 align:middle line:84% a dichotomy between an able-bodied person 00:49:02.080 --> 00:49:04.700 align:middle line:90% and disabled person. 00:49:04.700 --> 00:49:06.960 align:middle line:90% It's a big spectrum. 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:11.992 align:middle line:84% It's very important that we start seeing it like that. 00:49:11.992 --> 00:49:13.950 align:middle line:84% And just because it's a spectrum with everybody 00:49:13.950 --> 00:49:18.020 align:middle line:84% being so unique and so uniquely different, 00:49:18.020 --> 00:49:21.470 align:middle line:84% it's hard to take the element of assumption 00:49:21.470 --> 00:49:24.020 align:middle line:90% out of this equation. 00:49:24.020 --> 00:49:27.680 align:middle line:84% Making something and building a product or doing some research, 00:49:27.680 --> 00:49:32.780 align:middle line:84% it's very hard to target every single person representing 00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:36.990 align:middle line:84% every single bit of that spectrum. 00:49:36.990 --> 00:49:39.210 align:middle line:84% I think the important part there is 00:49:39.210 --> 00:49:41.460 align:middle line:84% that when the assumption has to happen, 00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:44.520 align:middle line:84% it has to be an educated assumption. 00:49:44.520 --> 00:49:48.910 align:middle line:84% It cannot be an assumption that was just made out of nowhere. 00:49:48.910 --> 00:49:54.300 align:middle line:84% And this leads us into a very, very critical and important 00:49:54.300 --> 00:50:00.240 align:middle line:84% part of the discussion is that it's all about education. 00:50:00.240 --> 00:50:04.350 align:middle line:84% For anybody conducting research or building products 00:50:04.350 --> 00:50:07.080 align:middle line:84% for people with disabilities or doing anything 00:50:07.080 --> 00:50:10.030 align:middle line:84% that benefits people with disabilities, 00:50:10.030 --> 00:50:14.040 align:middle line:84% it is very important that we educate ourselves 00:50:14.040 --> 00:50:17.520 align:middle line:84% to understand what are the different needs of people 00:50:17.520 --> 00:50:18.340 align:middle line:90% with disabilities. 00:50:18.340 --> 00:50:20.670 align:middle line:84% What are the different kinds of disabilities? 00:50:20.670 --> 00:50:22.140 align:middle line:90% How can we address them? 00:50:22.140 --> 00:50:23.790 align:middle line:84% What are the daily life experiences, 00:50:23.790 --> 00:50:25.470 align:middle line:90% as Nolan mentioned? 00:50:25.470 --> 00:50:29.670 align:middle line:84% I'm really glad, on that front, that at least one TV show 00:50:29.670 --> 00:50:33.330 align:middle line:84% has started to pick up on it a little bit, which is there 00:50:33.330 --> 00:50:34.540 align:middle line:90% was an episode on Queer Eye. 00:50:34.540 --> 00:50:36.207 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you guys have watched it 00:50:36.207 --> 00:50:40.230 align:middle line:84% or not, but that was an episode for someone who 00:50:40.230 --> 00:50:42.080 align:middle line:90% uses a wheelchair. 00:50:42.080 --> 00:50:44.660 align:middle line:90% So things like that really help. 00:50:44.660 --> 00:50:48.180 align:middle line:84% But I think what also helps is participating in meet-ups, 00:50:48.180 --> 00:50:52.050 align:middle line:84% reaching out, making sure that we are all educated about that. 00:50:52.050 --> 00:50:56.100 align:middle line:84% Reading articles on just blog posts, 00:50:56.100 --> 00:50:59.100 align:middle line:84% I know a lot of my other peers who 00:50:59.100 --> 00:51:01.650 align:middle line:84% have some sort of disability do a really, really great job 00:51:01.650 --> 00:51:05.405 align:middle line:84% in explaining things that they encounter and experience 00:51:05.405 --> 00:51:06.280 align:middle line:90% in their daily lives. 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.800 align:middle line:90% I think it's just fascinating. 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:10.480 align:middle line:84% Even as a person with a disability 00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:12.480 align:middle line:84% myself, it's really fascinating to kind of learn 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:14.730 align:middle line:84% about other people's experiences we have 00:51:14.730 --> 00:51:16.140 align:middle line:90% different kind of disabilities. 00:51:16.140 --> 00:51:19.820 align:middle line:84% So it's really important that we educate ourselves. 00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:23.360 align:middle line:84% And then, if we do have to make an assumption, 00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:28.190 align:middle line:84% that has to come from some sort of educational foundation. 00:51:28.190 --> 00:51:33.205 align:middle line:84% Because without that, it will be very meaningless. 00:51:33.205 --> 00:51:35.660 align:middle line:90% Awesome. 00:51:35.660 --> 00:51:39.920 align:middle line:84% Can we jump to the question in the chat? 00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:41.900 align:middle line:90% Yeah, absolutely. 00:51:41.900 --> 00:51:44.950 align:middle line:90% I love that answer, by the way. 00:51:44.950 --> 00:51:46.220 align:middle line:90% Nice job. 00:51:46.220 --> 00:51:48.360 align:middle line:84% Let me just read the question in the chat. 00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:49.862 align:middle line:90% OK. 00:51:49.862 --> 00:51:51.320 align:middle line:84% I have a question, as a researcher. 00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:55.690 align:middle line:84% We keep talking about how designers and engineers need 00:51:55.690 --> 00:51:59.620 align:middle line:84% to reach out to and co-create with people with disabilities 00:51:59.620 --> 00:52:02.470 align:middle line:84% to make the best, most accessible products. 00:52:02.470 --> 00:52:04.840 align:middle line:84% My question is, how do you feel about being recruited 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.360 align:middle line:84% for things like research or design studies based off 00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:08.980 align:middle line:90% of your ability status? 00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:11.013 align:middle line:84% Doesn't it annoy you after a point, 00:52:11.013 --> 00:52:12.430 align:middle line:84% because you get a lot of requests? 00:52:12.430 --> 00:52:13.990 align:middle line:84% Is it OK that people are reaching out 00:52:13.990 --> 00:52:15.547 align:middle line:84% for your expertise based specifically 00:52:15.547 --> 00:52:16.505 align:middle line:90% on your ability status? 00:52:16.505 --> 00:52:19.965 align:middle line:90% 00:52:19.965 --> 00:52:20.880 align:middle line:90% Go ahead. 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:21.570 align:middle line:90% Sorry. 00:52:21.570 --> 00:52:22.800 align:middle line:90% Can I answer this? 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.170 align:middle line:90% I'm super excited. 00:52:26.170 --> 00:52:32.790 align:middle line:84% I love complaining about things, and so I 00:52:32.790 --> 00:52:40.095 align:middle line:84% love helping people with quality assurance around products. 00:52:40.095 --> 00:52:44.970 align:middle line:90% 00:52:44.970 --> 00:52:51.940 align:middle line:84% I worked on a study with Ather earlier this month. 00:52:51.940 --> 00:52:56.190 align:middle line:84% And I did it last year, too, I think. 00:52:56.190 --> 00:52:58.800 align:middle line:90% I can't remember now. 00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:03.950 align:middle line:84% And he had really amazing work that he was doing, 00:53:03.950 --> 00:53:09.280 align:middle line:84% but it was super cool to go in and do some tests 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:14.130 align:middle line:84% and sort of think about how it can be applied 00:53:14.130 --> 00:53:19.140 align:middle line:90% to systems in the future. 00:53:19.140 --> 00:53:22.110 align:middle line:84% I don't want to get too into it, because I 00:53:22.110 --> 00:53:26.710 align:middle line:84% don't know how much he would want to talk about it. 00:53:26.710 --> 00:53:35.790 align:middle line:84% But one of the things that sort of has-- 00:53:35.790 --> 00:53:37.680 align:middle line:84% that I thought about while he was 00:53:37.680 --> 00:53:42.330 align:middle line:84% giving his answer was that Queer Eye episode, 00:53:42.330 --> 00:53:44.680 align:middle line:90% I watched it, as well. 00:53:44.680 --> 00:53:49.920 align:middle line:84% And one of the things I do with media 00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:57.360 align:middle line:84% is I'll go into watching media around accessibility. 00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:03.600 align:middle line:84% I'll go search it out sometimes and just, in my mind, 00:54:03.600 --> 00:54:10.230 align:middle line:84% try to poke holes in it and be like, OK, they did this wrong, 00:54:10.230 --> 00:54:12.750 align:middle line:90% and they did this wrong. 00:54:12.750 --> 00:54:22.550 align:middle line:84% And you know, I don't think it was the perfect episode, 00:54:22.550 --> 00:54:27.290 align:middle line:84% but I could tell that Netflix did their homework, 00:54:27.290 --> 00:54:32.210 align:middle line:84% almost to a point where I felt like they-- 00:54:32.210 --> 00:54:38.390 align:middle line:84% and granted, everyone's experience with disability 00:54:38.390 --> 00:54:39.120 align:middle line:90% is different. 00:54:39.120 --> 00:54:46.160 align:middle line:84% But I felt like they were talking about accessibility 00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:49.310 align:middle line:84% in a way that connected with me better than I 00:54:49.310 --> 00:54:54.890 align:middle line:84% thought the guy who they were helping 00:54:54.890 --> 00:54:56.390 align:middle line:90% who was in the wheelchair. 00:54:56.390 --> 00:54:59.180 align:middle line:84% He was talking about accessibility in a way 00:54:59.180 --> 00:55:06.550 align:middle line:84% that I was like, that doesn't resonate with me as well. 00:55:06.550 --> 00:55:11.390 align:middle line:90% So please, I'll have-- 00:55:11.390 --> 00:55:14.430 align:middle line:84% I don't know if you guys want my information. 00:55:14.430 --> 00:55:18.170 align:middle line:84% But I would love to be part of studies. 00:55:18.170 --> 00:55:20.660 align:middle line:90% I'd love to help. 00:55:20.660 --> 00:55:25.670 align:middle line:84% Super fun for me to look at things and help 00:55:25.670 --> 00:55:28.214 align:middle line:90% grow products like that. 00:55:28.214 --> 00:55:32.118 align:middle line:90% 00:55:32.118 --> 00:55:33.990 align:middle line:84% I just want to chime in here and say 00:55:33.990 --> 00:55:38.440 align:middle line:84% that Nolan has been a part of my study every time I've done it, 00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:41.290 align:middle line:84% and thank you so much for being a part of that. 00:55:41.290 --> 00:55:43.150 align:middle line:90% I think it's really helpful. 00:55:43.150 --> 00:55:47.910 align:middle line:84% But I'm on both sides of that, where I have recruited people 00:55:47.910 --> 00:55:48.660 align:middle line:90% with disabilities. 00:55:48.660 --> 00:55:50.730 align:middle line:84% And I've also-- and Kayla has been a part 00:55:50.730 --> 00:55:52.658 align:middle line:90% of all of those studies, too. 00:55:52.658 --> 00:55:54.450 align:middle line:84% So I've recruited people with disabilities, 00:55:54.450 --> 00:55:56.820 align:middle line:84% but I've also been asked many, many times if I 00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:59.560 align:middle line:90% want to participate in a study. 00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:08.612 align:middle line:84% I think, for me, on one side, I'm really curious 00:56:08.612 --> 00:56:10.820 align:middle line:84% about to know what is going on in the research world, 00:56:10.820 --> 00:56:12.362 align:middle line:84% being a part of the studies, learning 00:56:12.362 --> 00:56:17.450 align:middle line:84% from other researchers, learning about the study, helping out. 00:56:17.450 --> 00:56:20.610 align:middle line:84% But I also understand that I have 00:56:20.610 --> 00:56:23.890 align:middle line:84% a lot of other commitments in my daily schedule. 00:56:23.890 --> 00:56:28.740 align:middle line:84% So I would not hesitate in politely saying no 00:56:28.740 --> 00:56:35.490 align:middle line:84% to an offer to be a part of a study if I'm unable to do so. 00:56:35.490 --> 00:56:36.990 align:middle line:84% I think it's important to understand 00:56:36.990 --> 00:56:40.170 align:middle line:84% that I try to take the positive approach 00:56:40.170 --> 00:56:44.760 align:middle line:84% and say that the more requests I get 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:49.260 align:middle line:84% is an indication of how much work is being done for people 00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:50.520 align:middle line:90% with disabilities. 00:56:50.520 --> 00:56:55.560 align:middle line:84% If I look at that way, then I'm seeing it on a positive angle. 00:56:55.560 --> 00:56:59.190 align:middle line:84% If somebody reaches out to me, it just makes me really happy 00:56:59.190 --> 00:57:01.170 align:middle line:84% that somebody is thinking about those things, 00:57:01.170 --> 00:57:03.930 align:middle line:84% trying to address those problems, 00:57:03.930 --> 00:57:05.880 align:middle line:84% and trying do some research work. 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:11.288 align:middle line:84% But I also would not hesitate in politely saying no, that 00:57:11.288 --> 00:57:13.830 align:middle line:84% can't be a part of this study, if I have any other commitment 00:57:13.830 --> 00:57:16.650 align:middle line:84% or if I have something that takes a priority over that. 00:57:16.650 --> 00:57:21.670 align:middle line:90% 00:57:21.670 --> 00:57:24.340 align:middle line:90% Yeah, I would agree. 00:57:24.340 --> 00:57:29.440 align:middle line:84% I also love to be asked to do user studies. 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:33.220 align:middle line:84% But again, if I can't make it, then I can't make it, 00:57:33.220 --> 00:57:35.260 align:middle line:90% and I'm not shy about saying so. 00:57:35.260 --> 00:57:37.157 align:middle line:84% But I think that it's super important 00:57:37.157 --> 00:57:38.240 align:middle line:90% that they're getting done. 00:57:38.240 --> 00:57:40.740 align:middle line:84% And I always love to go give my feedback, too. 00:57:40.740 --> 00:57:43.630 align:middle line:90% 00:57:43.630 --> 00:57:45.160 align:middle line:84% As Ather said, it's really cool just 00:57:45.160 --> 00:57:47.050 align:middle line:84% to see what people are working on 00:57:47.050 --> 00:57:51.730 align:middle line:84% and all the cool things that are being done in this field 00:57:51.730 --> 00:57:56.540 align:middle line:84% and to help, hopefully, make things better for more people. 00:57:56.540 --> 00:57:59.740 align:middle line:84% So I, again, do not mind getting the requests. 00:57:59.740 --> 00:58:02.480 align:middle line:84% But if I can't make it, then I can't make it. 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:04.510 align:middle line:84% And I'm not going to really go out 00:58:04.510 --> 00:58:09.203 align:middle line:84% of my way to rearrange my schedule most of the time. 00:58:09.203 --> 00:58:10.870 align:middle line:84% But it is super fun to get the requests, 00:58:10.870 --> 00:58:13.990 align:middle line:90% and I love to go when I can go. 00:58:13.990 --> 00:58:15.490 align:middle line:84% But one other thing that I would add 00:58:15.490 --> 00:58:21.250 align:middle line:84% is I do like to go to these studies and participate, 00:58:21.250 --> 00:58:26.960 align:middle line:84% but it is a lot less fun when the studies aren't conducted 00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:28.810 align:middle line:90% in a productive manner. 00:58:28.810 --> 00:58:32.000 align:middle line:84% I'm trying to find the right words. 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:36.260 align:middle line:84% I think it's really important, especially as a researcher, 00:58:36.260 --> 00:58:39.590 align:middle line:84% you probably learned that asking the right questions 00:58:39.590 --> 00:58:43.395 align:middle line:84% is one of the most important things when doing research, 00:58:43.395 --> 00:58:45.020 align:middle line:84% and especially when doing a user study. 00:58:45.020 --> 00:58:48.790 align:middle line:84% Because you don't really want to-- 00:58:48.790 --> 00:58:51.790 align:middle line:84% the point of a user study is to learn from the user 00:58:51.790 --> 00:58:54.610 align:middle line:84% and to see what they need and how they're interacting 00:58:54.610 --> 00:58:57.250 align:middle line:84% with the technology and what would be good, 00:58:57.250 --> 00:58:59.530 align:middle line:90% what would be bad. 00:58:59.530 --> 00:59:03.760 align:middle line:84% And I've definitely participated in accessibility-related 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:09.113 align:middle line:84% studies before where people kind of make assumptions. 00:59:09.113 --> 00:59:10.780 align:middle line:84% Like the researchers that are conducting 00:59:10.780 --> 00:59:14.575 align:middle line:84% the study have made assumptions about what 00:59:14.575 --> 00:59:16.450 align:middle line:84% would be easier for me, what would be harder, 00:59:16.450 --> 00:59:18.617 align:middle line:84% just based on the way that I'm using the technology. 00:59:18.617 --> 00:59:21.520 align:middle line:84% It's different than what they've seen anybody-- 00:59:21.520 --> 00:59:23.943 align:middle line:84% how they've seen people use it before. 00:59:23.943 --> 00:59:25.360 align:middle line:84% And then they automatically assume 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:27.760 align:middle line:84% that because it's different, it's hard. 00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:30.160 align:middle line:84% But for me, that was just how I use the technology. 00:59:30.160 --> 00:59:31.430 align:middle line:90% That was easy. 00:59:31.430 --> 00:59:33.750 align:middle line:90% That was something that-- 00:59:33.750 --> 00:59:35.740 align:middle line:84% and it took me basically the whole interview 00:59:35.740 --> 00:59:39.350 align:middle line:84% to kind of explain that, no, this is actually fine. 00:59:39.350 --> 00:59:42.765 align:middle line:84% It's OK for people to use the magnifier this way. 00:59:42.765 --> 00:59:44.140 align:middle line:84% This is how I do it all the time. 00:59:44.140 --> 00:59:44.640 align:middle line:90% It's OK. 00:59:44.640 --> 00:59:48.210 align:middle line:90% 00:59:48.210 --> 00:59:52.560 align:middle line:84% Yeah, just as a tip, make sure that you're 00:59:52.560 --> 00:59:57.770 align:middle line:84% kind of keeping an open mind and making sure to be aware 00:59:57.770 --> 01:00:00.980 align:middle line:84% of what the people you're interviewing actually 01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:03.690 align:middle line:84% are saying, not what you just think that they're saying 01:00:03.690 --> 01:00:04.940 align:middle line:90% or what they should be saying. 01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:09.287 align:middle line:90% 01:00:09.287 --> 01:00:10.260 align:middle line:90% Great. 01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:13.670 align:middle line:90% That was a wonderful question. 01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:15.990 align:middle line:84% I think that is something everyone 01:00:15.990 --> 01:00:19.320 align:middle line:90% should be reflecting on. 01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:20.610 align:middle line:90% I do, as well-- 01:00:20.610 --> 01:00:25.230 align:middle line:84% when I'm organizing panels, we always 01:00:25.230 --> 01:00:29.380 align:middle line:84% pay our panelists, because it is time and expertise. 01:00:29.380 --> 01:00:34.170 align:middle line:84% So I think that's also one way that people can respect 01:00:34.170 --> 01:00:36.280 align:middle line:84% their work with people with disabilities, 01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:40.560 align:middle line:84% whether it's a study or just getting feedback on something 01:00:40.560 --> 01:00:42.390 align:middle line:90% early on. 01:00:42.390 --> 01:00:46.050 align:middle line:84% Always should be compensated in some way. 01:00:46.050 --> 01:00:50.388 align:middle line:84% Being disabled and having those experiences, 01:00:50.388 --> 01:00:51.820 align:middle line:90% that has value to it. 01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:55.840 align:middle line:90% So I really like that question. 01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:58.300 align:middle line:84% Well, thank you guys so much for coming. 01:00:58.300 --> 01:01:00.900 align:middle line:90% And thank you, panelists. 01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:04.808 align:middle line:84% I appreciate you all for joining, as well. 01:01:04.808 --> 01:01:06.600 align:middle line:84% Brianna, do you have anything else you want 01:01:06.600 --> 01:01:09.310 align:middle line:90% to say before we finish up? 01:01:09.310 --> 01:01:09.810 align:middle line:90% No. 01:01:09.810 --> 01:01:11.610 align:middle line:84% Just thank everybody for coming out and engaging 01:01:11.610 --> 01:01:12.500 align:middle line:90% in this conversation. 01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:16.290 align:middle line:84% I always appreciate hearing not only from our panelists, 01:01:16.290 --> 01:01:18.630 align:middle line:90% but also from our community. 01:01:18.630 --> 01:01:21.120 align:middle line:84% And so as a reminder, I'll be following up 01:01:21.120 --> 01:01:23.297 align:middle line:84% with an evaluation, a link to an evaluation, 01:01:23.297 --> 01:01:24.630 align:middle line:90% and we appreciate your feedback. 01:01:24.630 --> 01:01:28.290 align:middle line:84% And we hope to have you continue to stay 01:01:28.290 --> 01:01:30.660 align:middle line:90% involved in things we're doing. 01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.530 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 01:01:31.530 --> 01:01:33.330 align:middle line:90% Yes, thank you. 01:01:33.330 --> 01:01:34.620 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:01:34.620 --> 01:01:35.880 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:37.430 align:middle line:90% Thanks. 01:01:37.430 --> 01:01:40.967 align:middle line:90%