WEBVTT 00:00:01.650 --> 00:00:04.810 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: For folks to hop on. 00:00:04.810 --> 00:00:06.870 align:center We're excited to be having a conversation 00:00:06.870 --> 00:00:11.170 align:center today about disability inclusion in the ongoing pandemic. 00:00:11.170 --> 00:00:15.420 align:center I know I have been surprised over the past few months 00:00:15.420 --> 00:00:19.710 align:center as more and more things are just returning to in-person norms. 00:00:19.710 --> 00:00:25.020 align:center And that excludes so many folks with disabilities who are still 00:00:25.020 --> 00:00:27.950 align:center trying to be cautious. 00:00:27.950 --> 00:00:31.190 align:center How we had all of these hybrid and online events 00:00:31.190 --> 00:00:33.500 align:center during the pandemic, and folks are now just 00:00:33.500 --> 00:00:35.210 align:center returning to our pre-pandemic models 00:00:35.210 --> 00:00:36.800 align:center without thinking through that. 00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:39.740 align:center And of course, we can't ignore that there 00:00:39.740 --> 00:00:42.290 align:center are folks who have joined the disability community 00:00:42.290 --> 00:00:45.890 align:center after having long COVID. 00:00:45.890 --> 00:00:50.970 align:center So I am excited to have everybody here today, 00:00:50.970 --> 00:00:53.970 align:center and I'll do a brief introduction. 00:01:06.830 --> 00:01:08.900 align:center And Eric, can you make sure you've 00:01:08.900 --> 00:01:11.290 align:center restarted the recording, too? 00:01:11.290 --> 00:01:12.550 align:center ERIC: Yep, I have. 00:01:12.550 --> 00:01:14.120 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Perfect. 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:14.620 align:center Excellent. 00:01:14.620 --> 00:01:17.480 align:center So again, we're excited to have you here today. 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:19.270 align:center For those of you whom I don't know, 00:01:19.270 --> 00:01:20.440 align:center my name is Brianna Blaser. 00:01:20.440 --> 00:01:23.350 align:center I'm Associate Director for the AccessADVANCE Project 00:01:23.350 --> 00:01:26.500 align:center at the University of Washington, funded by the National Science 00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:27.910 align:center Foundation. 00:01:27.910 --> 00:01:30.910 align:center And our goals are really to help STEM departments and broadening 00:01:30.910 --> 00:01:35.590 align:center participation activities become more welcoming to women 00:01:35.590 --> 00:01:38.560 align:center with disabilities and academic positions 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:41.290 align:center and to develop resources related to these goals. 00:01:41.290 --> 00:01:45.450 align:center And that's part of why we are here today. 00:01:45.450 --> 00:01:47.940 align:center This is part of a series of webinars we've had this spring, 00:01:47.940 --> 00:01:52.470 align:center talking about disability inclusion in faculty, 00:01:52.470 --> 00:01:55.680 align:center and in academia, more broadly. 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.050 align:center If you're interested in learning more about what we do, 00:01:58.050 --> 00:02:04.530 align:center you can always go to our website, uw.edu/doit/programs. 00:02:04.530 --> 00:02:06.660 align:center And if you want to get weekly emails from us 00:02:06.660 --> 00:02:10.919 align:center on related resources and information, 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:18.120 align:center you can email doit@uw.edu to join our Community of Practice. 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.403 align:center I think that is it for my announcements. 00:02:20.403 --> 00:02:22.320 align:center Today we're going to have, for the first hour, 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:24.540 align:center we'll have a panel discussion. 00:02:24.540 --> 00:02:29.160 align:center And I'm so happy for our panelists joining us today. 00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:32.280 align:center And then for the last half hour, we 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:36.510 align:center will have informal discussion and networking. 00:02:36.510 --> 00:02:40.260 align:center So again, thank me-- 00:02:40.260 --> 00:02:41.478 align:center trying to exit out-- 00:02:41.478 --> 00:02:42.520 align:center thank you for joining us. 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:46.290 align:center We have on our panel today Victoria Chavez 00:02:46.290 --> 00:02:49.230 align:center from Northwestern University, Emmanuelle Marquis 00:02:49.230 --> 00:02:52.170 align:center from University of Michigan, Stephani Page from the Women 00:02:52.170 --> 00:02:54.900 align:center in Engineering Proactive Network, or WEPAN, 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:59.100 align:center and Matthew Dowell from Towson University. 00:02:59.100 --> 00:03:02.910 align:center So I am going to stop talking now 00:03:02.910 --> 00:03:05.258 align:center and turn it over to Victoria, who's 00:03:05.258 --> 00:03:07.050 align:center going to tell us a little bit about herself 00:03:07.050 --> 00:03:10.250 align:center and her experiences. 00:03:10.250 --> 00:03:11.500 align:center VICTORIA CHAVEZ: Hi, everyone. 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:13.100 align:center So excited to be here. 00:03:13.100 --> 00:03:15.080 align:center Thank you for having me. 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:16.370 align:center I hope everyone's doing well. 00:03:16.370 --> 00:03:17.390 align:center My name is Victoria. 00:03:17.390 --> 00:03:19.460 align:center I use they and she pronouns. 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:23.920 align:center I am a racially ambiguous not just look wise but also 00:03:23.920 --> 00:03:27.550 align:center to myself Latina with short curly hair. 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:31.630 align:center I am currently a second-year PhD student 00:03:31.630 --> 00:03:34.930 align:center at Northwestern's Computer Science and Learning Sciences 00:03:34.930 --> 00:03:36.370 align:center program. 00:03:36.370 --> 00:03:40.510 align:center My research seeks to disrupt instances and systems 00:03:40.510 --> 00:03:42.160 align:center of oppression that disproportionately 00:03:42.160 --> 00:03:45.850 align:center harm Black, disabled, Indigenous, and Latinx students 00:03:45.850 --> 00:03:47.740 align:center and scholars. 00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:50.020 align:center Most recently, I've also been trying 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:53.860 align:center to understand survival and joy. 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:57.430 align:center Folks who know me know I can be a little depressing. 00:03:57.430 --> 00:04:00.010 align:center And I want to understand how people experience joy 00:04:00.010 --> 00:04:04.030 align:center and how that is also so important towards our survival. 00:04:04.030 --> 00:04:05.817 align:center Before, at the onset of the pandemic, 00:04:05.817 --> 00:04:07.150 align:center so before I was a grad student-- 00:04:07.150 --> 00:04:08.363 align:center I'm only a second year-- 00:04:08.363 --> 00:04:10.780 align:center so before that, I was actually a computer science lecturer 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:12.197 align:center at the University of Rhode Island. 00:04:12.197 --> 00:04:16.180 align:center So I also had that experience of that hard switch 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:19.839 align:center to teaching online very early on. 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:26.080 align:center I want to give a general content warning around at least some 00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:28.780 align:center of the stuff that I'll be sharing and talking about. 00:04:28.780 --> 00:04:32.920 align:center Because this is inevitably a very deeply personal topic, 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.830 align:center and I won't shy away from how I feel 00:04:36.830 --> 00:04:40.180 align:center and from naming things and calling this 00:04:40.180 --> 00:04:42.370 align:center by the massive eugenics project that it 00:04:42.370 --> 00:04:47.210 align:center is in terms of my experiences and perspectives. 00:04:47.210 --> 00:04:49.930 align:center So I am dynamically disabled. 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:53.260 align:center It's a term I really like around understanding 00:04:53.260 --> 00:04:55.990 align:center that my disability changes every day. 00:04:55.990 --> 00:05:00.190 align:center What I can and what I'm able to do changes every day. 00:05:00.190 --> 00:05:04.310 align:center I'm immunocompromised, and I live with chronic pain. 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:06.860 align:center And so as a grad student in particular, 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:09.370 align:center it's really been an uphill battle trying 00:05:09.370 --> 00:05:13.690 align:center to acquire accommodations, to the point that I 00:05:13.690 --> 00:05:15.760 align:center just gave up and said, you know what, 00:05:15.760 --> 00:05:17.500 align:center I'm just not going to ask. 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:19.720 align:center I'm going to do, and I'll do everything 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:23.320 align:center unofficially and in secret and hope that people support me 00:05:23.320 --> 00:05:28.390 align:center because this is not a battle that I have the spoons for. 00:05:28.390 --> 00:05:31.990 align:center I am super, super fortunate to have an incredibly supportive 00:05:31.990 --> 00:05:36.640 align:center advisor and to have found community with other folks who, 00:05:36.640 --> 00:05:40.060 align:center for a variety of reasons, were all forced to carve 00:05:40.060 --> 00:05:42.520 align:center these spaces for ourselves. 00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:45.880 align:center And just generally, it's been really exhausting 00:05:45.880 --> 00:05:49.210 align:center having to unofficially request for accommodations 00:05:49.210 --> 00:05:51.680 align:center from our professors and ask, hey, 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.280 align:center can you support me being remote but don't tell anyone? 00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:56.410 align:center And also, you could get in trouble if you say yes 00:05:56.410 --> 00:05:58.540 align:center and anyone finds out. 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:01.330 align:center So just feeling like I have to fight just 00:06:01.330 --> 00:06:05.380 align:center to be allowed to exist, while being 00:06:05.380 --> 00:06:07.870 align:center not just told, but generally made to feel 00:06:07.870 --> 00:06:11.740 align:center that my existence is a burden, that 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:14.710 align:center wanting to live a full life and be 00:06:14.710 --> 00:06:16.420 align:center able to leave my apartment safely 00:06:16.420 --> 00:06:19.540 align:center is too much to ask for, and especially, 00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:23.500 align:center most recently, that my death and the death of other people 00:06:23.500 --> 00:06:28.330 align:center like me are an inconsequential price to pay for abled people's 00:06:28.330 --> 00:06:30.430 align:center sense of normalcy. 00:06:30.430 --> 00:06:37.055 align:center As a grad student, my future has felt super uncertain because-- 00:06:37.055 --> 00:06:38.680 align:center and we'll get to this in a little bit-- 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:40.660 align:center but it's been really difficult to publish. 00:06:40.660 --> 00:06:42.880 align:center You can't publish if you can't attend conferences. 00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:46.390 align:center And I can't attend conferences that aren't accessible to me. 00:06:46.390 --> 00:06:49.000 align:center And so the pandemic has really shown 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.150 align:center how unsustainable academia is broadly, 00:06:52.150 --> 00:06:54.650 align:center but especially for people like me. 00:06:54.650 --> 00:07:00.580 align:center And so as a second year, I just, I really question and wonder 00:07:00.580 --> 00:07:03.710 align:center what my future is going to end up looking like. 00:07:03.710 --> 00:07:05.110 align:center So yeah, that's just a little bit 00:07:05.110 --> 00:07:06.400 align:center about where I'm coming from. 00:07:08.907 --> 00:07:09.990 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:07:09.990 --> 00:07:11.800 align:center Thank you for sharing. 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:13.588 align:center Emmanuelle? 00:07:13.588 --> 00:07:14.630 align:center EMMANUELLE MARQUIS: Sure. 00:07:14.630 --> 00:07:15.710 align:center Thanks, Brianna. 00:07:15.710 --> 00:07:16.555 align:center And hi, everybody. 00:07:16.555 --> 00:07:18.350 align:center So I'm Emmanuelle Marquis. 00:07:18.350 --> 00:07:21.320 align:center I'm a professor in materials science and engineering 00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:25.320 align:center in the College of Engineering at the University of Michigan. 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:28.610 align:center My pronouns are she and they. 00:07:28.610 --> 00:07:32.690 align:center So for me, I had COVID in March 2020, 00:07:32.690 --> 00:07:37.220 align:center and since then, I have had Long COVID. 00:07:37.220 --> 00:07:43.730 align:center So it manifests obviously as an invisible disability. 00:07:43.730 --> 00:07:48.200 align:center It makes standing difficult, so teaching is quite a challenge. 00:07:48.200 --> 00:07:50.900 align:center And it has a number of other symptoms 00:07:50.900 --> 00:07:56.550 align:center that are disabling and changing all the time as well. 00:07:56.550 --> 00:07:59.390 align:center So I guess what I want to talk about a little bit is, first, 00:07:59.390 --> 00:08:01.830 align:center the personal level. 00:08:01.830 --> 00:08:05.378 align:center I've had to learn to embrace my condition. 00:08:05.378 --> 00:08:06.920 align:center There are days where I can forget it, 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:08.940 align:center but there are days where it's really hard. 00:08:08.940 --> 00:08:14.450 align:center And so just there's a mental health aspect to it, for sure. 00:08:14.450 --> 00:08:18.050 align:center I've had to educate myself about disability. 00:08:18.050 --> 00:08:21.170 align:center I'm completely open to the fact that before being sick, 00:08:21.170 --> 00:08:25.660 align:center I was pretty ignorant about the topic. 00:08:25.660 --> 00:08:29.140 align:center I'm currently and still on a long journey 00:08:29.140 --> 00:08:34.419 align:center to recognize and address my internalized ableism 00:08:34.419 --> 00:08:37.659 align:center towards myself but also towards others, 00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:40.090 align:center recognizing that I've had and need 00:08:40.090 --> 00:08:43.450 align:center to continue changing my expectations for myself, 00:08:43.450 --> 00:08:46.840 align:center as well as others. 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:51.040 align:center I'm dealing with continued trauma, 00:08:51.040 --> 00:08:54.730 align:center obviously at the beginning at the onset 00:08:54.730 --> 00:08:57.760 align:center with the illness, which for me manifested itself 00:08:57.760 --> 00:08:58.780 align:center as a brain injury. 00:08:58.780 --> 00:09:02.200 align:center So I've lost the complete ability to function. 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:03.370 align:center I could not read. 00:09:03.370 --> 00:09:04.360 align:center I'm an engineer. 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:05.920 align:center I couldn't do simple math. 00:09:05.920 --> 00:09:09.490 align:center Like 5 plus 9, I just couldn't do it. 00:09:09.490 --> 00:09:14.080 align:center For a year I was unable to work. 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:16.240 align:center And then there was the gaslighting 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:18.670 align:center from the medical establishment on top of it, 00:09:18.670 --> 00:09:21.790 align:center and then from my institution, which 00:09:21.790 --> 00:09:23.650 align:center denied me all form of accommodation 00:09:23.650 --> 00:09:28.670 align:center and required me to come back to work 100%. 00:09:28.670 --> 00:09:30.830 align:center So that was really hard. 00:09:30.830 --> 00:09:32.410 align:center I've had to try to figure out how 00:09:32.410 --> 00:09:36.010 align:center to not lose my job while functioning somehow 00:09:36.010 --> 00:09:40.160 align:center and do what I was required to do. 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:42.460 align:center Which I'm lucky in the fact that I've somehow 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:46.720 align:center managed it by finding allies where I sometimes least 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.110 align:center expected it. 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.580 align:center And then now, identifying as a person with disabilities 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:59.890 align:center and trying to raise awareness, finding myself into facing 00:09:59.890 --> 00:10:03.490 align:center microaggressions and sometimes not so micro aggressions. 00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:10.090 align:center So on the professional level, within my institutions 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:13.990 align:center I'm learning to navigate the void and finding allies. 00:10:13.990 --> 00:10:16.030 align:center So there is absolutely no process 00:10:16.030 --> 00:10:20.380 align:center by which at my institution faculty or staff 00:10:20.380 --> 00:10:24.980 align:center with disabilities are supported or can find accommodation. 00:10:24.980 --> 00:10:27.310 align:center So we're isolated by design. 00:10:27.310 --> 00:10:31.400 align:center Everybody follows whatever process they can figure out. 00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:36.520 align:center It's by no means transparent and often results 00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:41.140 align:center in very cruel decisions. 00:10:41.140 --> 00:10:42.640 align:center It takes time and energy, obviously, 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:46.190 align:center to advocate for this, but it's important. 00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:50.170 align:center And then outside the institution, 00:10:50.170 --> 00:10:52.630 align:center like Victoria was saying, it's finding 00:10:52.630 --> 00:10:55.330 align:center that professional societies and funding 00:10:55.330 --> 00:10:58.630 align:center agencies are very reluctant to adapt, 00:10:58.630 --> 00:11:02.080 align:center far more than I expected it because that also includes NSF. 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:04.210 align:center So they still require in-person attendance 00:11:04.210 --> 00:11:06.280 align:center for some grant applications. 00:11:06.280 --> 00:11:10.480 align:center And then conferences refuse to be remote, 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:13.060 align:center with the argument that they would lose funding. 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:18.310 align:center So now I'm very active with advocacy 00:11:18.310 --> 00:11:23.080 align:center on campus, with three aspects that I'm trying to tackle. 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.200 align:center So raising awareness, I got some funding 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:30.220 align:center from the College of Engineering to organize seminars and panel 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:35.680 align:center discussions, just to educate my colleagues about disability. 00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:38.200 align:center I'm also quite active in community building 00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:40.600 align:center because we're all very isolated. 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.450 align:center So with two colleagues across campus, 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:47.830 align:center we created a disability justice network. 00:11:47.830 --> 00:11:51.250 align:center So it's a collective of staff and faculty 00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:54.890 align:center that brings disabled people, people with disabilities, 00:11:54.890 --> 00:11:57.250 align:center and allies together to try to foster 00:11:57.250 --> 00:12:00.490 align:center discussions about disability justice at the university. 00:12:00.490 --> 00:12:05.110 align:center And then it provides a safe support network 00:12:05.110 --> 00:12:07.150 align:center for asking questions, figuring out 00:12:07.150 --> 00:12:09.070 align:center what can we ask in terms of disabilities, 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:11.650 align:center who we can talk to, et cetera. 00:12:11.650 --> 00:12:13.840 align:center And then the main aspect of this group really 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:18.700 align:center for me is how can we make change. 00:12:18.700 --> 00:12:22.510 align:center And with this, I've started discussions 00:12:22.510 --> 00:12:24.220 align:center with the upper administration. 00:12:24.220 --> 00:12:25.760 align:center It's unclear where it's going to go, 00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:28.180 align:center but at least it's started, about how 00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:31.840 align:center we can address the ableist rules and the language that 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.970 align:center is used, for instance, in the faculty handbook. 00:12:37.940 --> 00:12:39.530 align:center This is all pretty heavy, so I want 00:12:39.530 --> 00:12:42.380 align:center to finish with positive takeaways. 00:12:42.380 --> 00:12:47.240 align:center With the pandemic, I really found a increased sense 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:52.220 align:center of awareness for disability justice among my colleagues. 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:56.480 align:center There is an eagerness to connect and to bring change 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:58.460 align:center to the academy. 00:12:58.460 --> 00:13:01.890 align:center It may not be true within the upper administration, 00:13:01.890 --> 00:13:06.710 align:center but I found an extraordinary amount of support 00:13:06.710 --> 00:13:09.290 align:center from students. 00:13:09.290 --> 00:13:12.170 align:center Unlike the upper administration, they've 00:13:12.170 --> 00:13:17.060 align:center generally shown empathy, generosity, and support. 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:21.560 align:center We are here forbidden to request masking in the classroom. 00:13:21.560 --> 00:13:25.520 align:center When I asked them on the first day of classes, 00:13:25.520 --> 00:13:28.130 align:center "will you please mask because I'm immunocompromised?" 00:13:28.130 --> 00:13:31.280 align:center they all did without any complaint. 00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:33.770 align:center And I've never had to remind them all year long. 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:40.400 align:center And so that's all I want to say for now. 00:13:40.400 --> 00:13:43.937 align:center So thank you, thank you all for being here. 00:13:43.937 --> 00:13:45.020 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:13:45.020 --> 00:13:45.230 align:center Thank you. 00:13:45.230 --> 00:13:46.897 align:center And I was just about to drop in the chat 00:13:46.897 --> 00:13:49.310 align:center a link to an article in The Chronicle of Higher 00:13:49.310 --> 00:13:52.220 align:center Education that Emmanuelle is a co-author on Long COVID, 00:13:52.220 --> 00:13:54.100 align:center too, that I think many of you might 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:55.350 align:center be interested in checking out. 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:58.083 align:center So I will drop that in in a second. 00:13:58.083 --> 00:13:58.625 align:center And Stephani? 00:14:01.300 --> 00:14:03.170 align:center STEPHANI PAGE: Hello, everyone. 00:14:03.170 --> 00:14:05.710 align:center Thank you so much for having me and for supporting 00:14:05.710 --> 00:14:08.410 align:center this discussion happening. 00:14:08.410 --> 00:14:14.500 align:center I do like to start with a little bit about my position 00:14:14.500 --> 00:14:19.570 align:center and my positionality with respect to this conversation. 00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:21.580 align:center I am Director of Strategic Initiatives 00:14:21.580 --> 00:14:24.370 align:center for the Women of Engineering Practice Network. 00:14:24.370 --> 00:14:30.070 align:center I am a engineer scientist by degrees and training, 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:32.740 align:center a biochemist and biophysicist. 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:37.150 align:center And right at the start of the pandemic, 00:14:37.150 --> 00:14:42.130 align:center I was leaving my last postdoc and recall 00:14:42.130 --> 00:14:46.750 align:center a lot of the sigh of relief that I was not navigating academia 00:14:46.750 --> 00:14:50.690 align:center as the pandemic started. 00:14:50.690 --> 00:14:52.600 align:center For me, it's really important to share 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.840 align:center that I am someone who grapples with my identity 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.990 align:center and relationship in the context of disability. 00:14:58.990 --> 00:15:04.360 align:center And I see it a lot in the activists and the scholars 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:05.830 align:center who I write-- 00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:10.570 align:center or who I read and who have had a lot of influence on how 00:15:10.570 --> 00:15:12.850 align:center I think about justice inequity. 00:15:12.850 --> 00:15:15.220 align:center I've dealt with chronic pain. 00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:19.030 align:center I've been in pain every day for at least the last 13 years. 00:15:19.030 --> 00:15:23.350 align:center I've experienced massive depressive disorders, 00:15:23.350 --> 00:15:24.565 align:center where I can be-- 00:15:27.390 --> 00:15:29.220 align:center it's debilitating. 00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:32.700 align:center I have a neuropathy that impacts my ability 00:15:32.700 --> 00:15:37.980 align:center to function sometimes, to the point that I am right-handed 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.490 align:center and to the point that I can't even use my right hand. 00:15:41.490 --> 00:15:44.700 align:center And I have debilitating migraines 00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:48.600 align:center that can get so bad that I have difficulty seeing. 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.390 align:center But I still grapple, and I'm very open about the fact 00:15:51.390 --> 00:15:54.810 align:center that I still grapple with calling myself disabled. 00:15:54.810 --> 00:15:58.050 align:center And I know that a lot of that comes from not just 00:15:58.050 --> 00:16:02.850 align:center internalized ableism, but how systems of oppression 00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:06.600 align:center actually function to cause us to distance ourselves 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.530 align:center from our reality, and how that also impacts our ability 00:16:10.530 --> 00:16:15.750 align:center to recognize marginalization and oppression for other people. 00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:20.100 align:center And the wonderful thing in my mind 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:24.930 align:center about the necessity for intersectionality 00:16:24.930 --> 00:16:31.200 align:center as a framework is the fact that it really, as a framework, 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:32.490 align:center is an amazing tool. 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:34.740 align:center And I said that kind of "the wonderful thing" 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:38.490 align:center sarcastically because this is really 00:16:38.490 --> 00:16:42.250 align:center incredible work that feeds into these frameworks that we use. 00:16:42.250 --> 00:16:44.970 align:center But what makes them, what makes these frameworks 00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:50.070 align:center a necessity is exhausting. 00:16:53.928 --> 00:16:58.170 align:center Even today, I could be dealing with a new diagnosis 00:16:58.170 --> 00:16:59.250 align:center just this morning. 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:02.490 align:center And so as I was coming into this, 00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:05.849 align:center preparing for mentally for this discussion, 00:17:05.849 --> 00:17:10.260 align:center I was starting to think a lot about what I would want to say. 00:17:10.260 --> 00:17:12.690 align:center We use intersectionality as a framework 00:17:12.690 --> 00:17:15.240 align:center not just in the context of my broader organization, 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.869 align:center but in the context of one of the larger initiatives 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:21.960 align:center that I'll reference, which is our NSF Advance Funded 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.180 align:center Initiative, the ARC network. 00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:29.280 align:center And as I'm driving home from this doctor's appointment 00:17:29.280 --> 00:17:32.820 align:center where I've got a lot to process and a lot 00:17:32.820 --> 00:17:38.050 align:center to think about in terms of what do I prepare for, of course, 00:17:38.050 --> 00:17:40.980 align:center I'm thinking about this conversation and how 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:45.450 align:center intersectionality, with it we go beyond just 00:17:45.450 --> 00:17:48.240 align:center asking how many overlapping identities or social identities 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.550 align:center does a person have, and we move into thinking 00:17:50.550 --> 00:17:53.820 align:center about systems of oppression and the organization of power 00:17:53.820 --> 00:18:00.900 align:center in our broader society and even in our social microcosms. 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:03.930 align:center We think about how social identities are constructed 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:08.130 align:center and then operationalized, and then who constructs them 00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:09.970 align:center and who operationalizes them. 00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.170 align:center And then, what are the tensions when people take over 00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:15.900 align:center their identities, or the social constructs that 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:17.010 align:center have been developed? 00:18:17.010 --> 00:18:20.940 align:center What happens when we kind of own them and reverse them and make 00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:28.500 align:center them clear and make them, take some control over them, 00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:31.440 align:center that hostility or that violence that's then experienced? 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:37.110 align:center And then there's this broader idea about how all of this 00:18:37.110 --> 00:18:39.630 align:center intertwines and influences each other 00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:41.760 align:center and then gives rise to marginalization 00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:46.110 align:center and the disparate experiences with access and opportunity 00:18:46.110 --> 00:18:49.590 align:center and safety and security. 00:18:49.590 --> 00:18:54.150 align:center The reality is that we live in societies that disable people. 00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:55.990 align:center That's just a fact. 00:18:55.990 --> 00:19:02.950 align:center And it's made it deadly to be disabled, 00:19:02.950 --> 00:19:05.350 align:center and it's continued to cycle. 00:19:05.350 --> 00:19:10.000 align:center And that disabling structures are just so incredibly deeply 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:13.960 align:center entrenched in our society that racism disables, 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:15.370 align:center misogyny disables. 00:19:15.370 --> 00:19:20.280 align:center And these cycles are continued and they're deepened. 00:19:20.280 --> 00:19:25.210 align:center We sit and we look at our different movements 00:19:25.210 --> 00:19:27.710 align:center that have been incredible. 00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:29.290 align:center But then we still have to contend 00:19:29.290 --> 00:19:31.840 align:center with that in a lot of these movements and spaces, 00:19:31.840 --> 00:19:35.590 align:center we've denied the reality that disabled people exist along 00:19:35.590 --> 00:19:38.350 align:center all axes of marginalization, right? 00:19:38.350 --> 00:19:41.920 align:center But then in some spaces where there are movements 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.940 align:center around disabled folks, they deny that people 00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:50.050 align:center experience other marginalities just beyond being disabled. 00:19:50.050 --> 00:19:52.340 align:center And it's all feeding within to each other, 00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:55.570 align:center and so there's just a denial that 00:19:55.570 --> 00:19:57.670 align:center trans disabled people exist, and denial 00:19:57.670 --> 00:19:59.560 align:center that Black disabled people exist, 00:19:59.560 --> 00:20:03.700 align:center and that disability still can, at times, some movements 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:06.790 align:center and spaces still adhere to whiteness 00:20:06.790 --> 00:20:13.480 align:center and affluence and uphold white supremacy and uphold stiffness. 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.050 align:center And where are we sitting in that balance? 00:20:17.050 --> 00:20:22.420 align:center And it is, in my mind, it's a constant confrontation, 00:20:22.420 --> 00:20:26.140 align:center both at the individual level, the organizational level, 00:20:26.140 --> 00:20:30.970 align:center and the societal level of how are we continuing to exclude 00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:33.910 align:center and marginalize and further disable people, 00:20:33.910 --> 00:20:37.120 align:center even to the extent that it undermines the efforts that we 00:20:37.120 --> 00:20:42.430 align:center say are quote unquote "a main area of focus." 00:20:42.430 --> 00:20:47.830 align:center And I know that's a lot to think about 00:20:47.830 --> 00:20:52.690 align:center in a 20-minute or so drive, especially 00:20:52.690 --> 00:20:56.440 align:center as I am grappling with a lot of decisions 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.170 align:center that I'll need to make. 00:20:59.170 --> 00:21:02.140 align:center But it does cause me to sit in a space coming 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:06.130 align:center into this conversation, so I wanted to share that. 00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:08.230 align:center I also want to be open about the fact 00:21:08.230 --> 00:21:13.840 align:center that we are hosting an in-person meeting in June. 00:21:13.840 --> 00:21:17.620 align:center And there's been a lot that we've dealt with internally 00:21:17.620 --> 00:21:21.040 align:center about how do we really integrate who 00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:25.270 align:center we say we are in our practices and our approaches. 00:21:25.270 --> 00:21:27.310 align:center We've had to deal with the disappointment 00:21:27.310 --> 00:21:30.400 align:center when certain models for virtual and hybrid 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.200 align:center just didn't work out. 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:36.340 align:center We had to deal with when someone has said, 00:21:36.340 --> 00:21:41.410 align:center this is what you have to do, and there's inflexibility 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:42.940 align:center with that. 00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:45.760 align:center And the fact that this meeting is we 00:21:45.760 --> 00:21:51.580 align:center are charged to put on and host the national convening 00:21:51.580 --> 00:21:52.960 align:center for ADVANCE grantees. 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.620 align:center And so it wasn't just our choice, 00:21:56.620 --> 00:22:00.550 align:center but for us and for this team, we do feel 00:22:00.550 --> 00:22:02.410 align:center responsible for what we uphold. 00:22:02.410 --> 00:22:07.960 align:center And so there's a lot that we've been confronting internally 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.440 align:center and that I think we need to continue 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.960 align:center to confront and continue to talk about and continue 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.410 align:center to push against and challenge in terms 00:22:17.410 --> 00:22:26.320 align:center of thinking about the most vulnerable people. 00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:28.210 align:center And what does inclusion look like? 00:22:28.210 --> 00:22:31.670 align:center And not just inclusion as the opposite of exclusion, 00:22:31.670 --> 00:22:35.710 align:center but inclusion in the context of the organization of power 00:22:35.710 --> 00:22:37.910 align:center and how we do what we do? 00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:43.720 align:center So that's all I could really think to say as we start. 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.900 align:center But again, it's just really happy 00:22:46.900 --> 00:22:48.430 align:center that this conversation is happening 00:22:48.430 --> 00:22:50.597 align:center and to be a part of it. 00:22:50.597 --> 00:22:51.680 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.450 align:center Thank you, Stephani. 00:22:53.450 --> 00:22:54.140 align:center And Matt? 00:22:57.570 --> 00:22:58.500 align:center MATTHEW DOWELL: Hello. 00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:04.230 align:center I'm going to drop a link into the chat for some slides 00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:06.970 align:center and my opening comments. 00:23:06.970 --> 00:23:11.310 align:center Hopefully I set up those sharing settings correctly. 00:23:11.310 --> 00:23:16.650 align:center And I do have a very, very basic PowerPoint that, again, I'll 00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:19.635 align:center try to share and start there. 00:23:26.430 --> 00:23:28.024 align:center Did that work? 00:23:28.024 --> 00:23:29.482 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: It looks beautiful. 00:23:29.482 --> 00:23:30.810 align:center MATTHEW DOWELL: OK. 00:23:30.810 --> 00:23:32.700 align:center So, hi. 00:23:32.700 --> 00:23:34.110 align:center So I have written out comments. 00:23:34.110 --> 00:23:36.900 align:center It's something I'm trying to do more of for access reasons. 00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:39.240 align:center They're probably more formal than I'd like them to be, 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.730 align:center but so they are. 00:23:41.730 --> 00:23:42.990 align:center My name is Matt Dowell. 00:23:42.990 --> 00:23:44.790 align:center I'm an Assistant Professor of English 00:23:44.790 --> 00:23:47.370 align:center and Director of First-Year Writing at Towson University, 00:23:47.370 --> 00:23:49.952 align:center just north of Baltimore, Maryland. 00:23:49.952 --> 00:23:51.160 align:center Thank you all for being here. 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:52.890 align:center Thank you, organizers, for organizing 00:23:52.890 --> 00:23:56.220 align:center and, at the risk of getting her pronunciation of her last name 00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:59.265 align:center wrong, Melissa Collins for recommending AccessADVANCE 00:23:59.265 --> 00:24:02.050 align:center to invite me to participate. 00:24:02.050 --> 00:24:04.290 align:center I always find these conversations 00:24:04.290 --> 00:24:06.750 align:center beneficial or educational. 00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:08.940 align:center So I'm happy to be here, and I look forward 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:11.530 align:center to learning from all of you. 00:24:11.530 --> 00:24:16.830 align:center So I'm a Type I diabetic, insulin dependent diabetic. 00:24:16.830 --> 00:24:18.810 align:center I was actually diagnosed at 28 in the middle 00:24:18.810 --> 00:24:21.583 align:center of my dissertation. 00:24:21.583 --> 00:24:23.250 align:center When you're trying to dissertate and you 00:24:23.250 --> 00:24:25.410 align:center find yourself falling asleep on the floor 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:27.490 align:center and then wondering why you're on the floor, 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:29.580 align:center it's kind of a worrisome thing. 00:24:29.580 --> 00:24:34.230 align:center So I also have an inflammatory condition of unknown pathology, 00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:38.280 align:center though it's in the vein of RA, Crohn's, or Behcet's. 00:24:38.280 --> 00:24:41.040 align:center I'm also asthmatic, so the onset of the pandemic 00:24:41.040 --> 00:24:43.260 align:center was a rather unsettling period of time 00:24:43.260 --> 00:24:48.900 align:center and remains so, as other panelists have spoken to. 00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:50.340 align:center My academic background that makes 00:24:50.340 --> 00:24:51.798 align:center me a little bit of an outsider here 00:24:51.798 --> 00:24:55.050 align:center is that I almost exclusively teach first-year writing, which 00:24:55.050 --> 00:24:58.080 align:center is probably a required class at your college or university, 00:24:58.080 --> 00:25:00.872 align:center and I run that first-year writing program. 00:25:00.872 --> 00:25:02.580 align:center I've been a writing program administrator 00:25:02.580 --> 00:25:03.990 align:center for over a decade now. 00:25:03.990 --> 00:25:07.350 align:center My research, as best as I can currently make sense of it, 00:25:07.350 --> 00:25:09.510 align:center focuses on the uncomfortable frictions 00:25:09.510 --> 00:25:13.560 align:center among managerialism, disability, accessibility, and labor 00:25:13.560 --> 00:25:16.470 align:center in all of its many definitions, and existences 00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:19.530 align:center in higher education, including my experiences 00:25:19.530 --> 00:25:21.900 align:center of being a disabled academic program manager. 00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:23.760 align:center And I like to quote Raymond Williams here, 00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:26.550 align:center who has this great line about an administrator just 00:25:26.550 --> 00:25:30.270 align:center being a more class-aware, polite way of saying manager. 00:25:30.270 --> 00:25:32.370 align:center My work as a writing program administrator 00:25:32.370 --> 00:25:35.340 align:center of a required first-year class situates me 00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:37.410 align:center in a space that historically and continues 00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:41.070 align:center to operate as a gatekeeper for higher education, situated 00:25:41.070 --> 00:25:44.010 align:center in linguistic, racial, and class discrimination, 00:25:44.010 --> 00:25:46.890 align:center as well as discrimination based in the expectation for 00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:50.790 align:center and even demand for sound norm in bodies and minds. 00:25:50.790 --> 00:25:53.910 align:center Additionally, first-year writing is, nationally speaking, 00:25:53.910 --> 00:25:57.030 align:center overwhelmingly taught by contingent faculty, 00:25:57.030 --> 00:25:59.740 align:center which raises questions about, among other things, 00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:01.740 align:center the teaching labor of accessibility 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.930 align:center and the recognition of and support for disabled faculty, 00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:06.180 align:center including-- 00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:09.120 align:center it is not new to say this, but disabled faculty 00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:12.540 align:center are more likely to end up in contingent positions. 00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:15.287 align:center I am the co-chair of the Accessibility and Disability 00:26:15.287 --> 00:26:17.370 align:center committee, along with my good friend, Bre Garrett, 00:26:17.370 --> 00:26:20.190 align:center for the Council of Writing Program Administrators. 00:26:20.190 --> 00:26:22.890 align:center And I facilitated accessibility and accommodations 00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:25.590 align:center for the 2019 in-person conference 00:26:25.590 --> 00:26:29.160 align:center in Baltimore, the last in-person conference 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:30.870 align:center before the upcoming one this summer. 00:26:30.870 --> 00:26:36.510 align:center And I can speak more to that, if there's anything to be said. 00:26:36.510 --> 00:26:39.840 align:center I could be-- 00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:43.030 align:center I don't-- the slide's not moving the way-- there we go. 00:26:43.030 --> 00:26:45.600 align:center So not doing great with the PowerPoint, but here's 00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:46.470 align:center some of my research. 00:26:49.190 --> 00:26:52.430 align:center Academic program director. 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:55.250 align:center And then recent scholarship in public writing 00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:58.710 align:center has addressed conference accessibility and exclusion, 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:02.630 align:center including a piece that gained a little bit of traction 00:27:02.630 --> 00:27:05.810 align:center about maskless DEI initiatives. 00:27:05.810 --> 00:27:09.860 align:center I can put a link in the chat for this once I'm done here, 00:27:09.860 --> 00:27:13.223 align:center but I include the very beginning part of it 00:27:13.223 --> 00:27:15.140 align:center here on the screen, where it says, "Recently I 00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:18.140 align:center remotely attended a mask-optional in-person meeting 00:27:18.140 --> 00:27:21.590 align:center where campus leaders proudly proclaimed that DEI was 00:27:21.590 --> 00:27:24.410 align:center a my college's top priority." 00:27:24.410 --> 00:27:27.050 align:center And when I say college, I mean College of Liberal Arts 00:27:27.050 --> 00:27:28.250 align:center within the university. 00:27:28.250 --> 00:27:32.450 align:center We're a very college-based operational model. 00:27:32.450 --> 00:27:35.360 align:center As a disabled faculty member who writes about disability access 00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:39.030 align:center in higher education, I find myself considering 00:27:39.030 --> 00:27:41.690 align:center how to make sense of such a statement, how seriously 00:27:41.690 --> 00:27:43.700 align:center to take such statements, how much to care 00:27:43.700 --> 00:27:45.620 align:center that such statements are being made. 00:27:45.620 --> 00:27:49.460 align:center And it goes on from there, and I can share that link. 00:27:49.460 --> 00:27:51.500 align:center Like I said, I feel a little bit out of place 00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:55.308 align:center being here in that my academic home is not in the sciences. 00:27:55.308 --> 00:27:57.350 align:center But at the same time, I think it's very important 00:27:57.350 --> 00:27:59.540 align:center to say if we're discussing access and accommodation 00:27:59.540 --> 00:28:01.490 align:center in higher education, including all 00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:05.480 align:center the way up until professional organizations and faculty 00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:08.810 align:center and science organizations and whatever it might be, 00:28:08.810 --> 00:28:12.410 align:center then that super very much involves the access 00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:15.860 align:center and accommodation that matters in required, often gatekeeping, 00:28:15.860 --> 00:28:17.810 align:center undergraduate courses. 00:28:17.810 --> 00:28:19.880 align:center I just always give some thought to who 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:23.530 align:center are we, just who are we not in a selfish way, 00:28:23.530 --> 00:28:26.800 align:center but whose work and whose expertise 00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:30.310 align:center and whose commitments are we losing by banishing them 00:28:30.310 --> 00:28:32.140 align:center the first year? 00:28:32.140 --> 00:28:34.330 align:center My broad opening comments on accessibility 00:28:34.330 --> 00:28:38.350 align:center in academic institutions and organizations 00:28:38.350 --> 00:28:40.480 align:center is that accessibility has to center 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.728 align:center disabled people and their needs, that designing accessibility 00:28:43.728 --> 00:28:45.520 align:center has to be the starting point for all design 00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:48.520 align:center choices of organizations, meetings, and the like, 00:28:48.520 --> 00:28:50.410 align:center and that the work of accessibility 00:28:50.410 --> 00:28:53.560 align:center can't be left as the labor domain of disabled people 00:28:53.560 --> 00:28:54.700 align:center alone. 00:28:54.700 --> 00:28:56.408 align:center Currently in my day-to-day academic life, 00:28:56.408 --> 00:28:58.450 align:center I'm thinking through the rhetoric and materiality 00:28:58.450 --> 00:29:01.660 align:center of what I call "the more," by which I mean that accessibility 00:29:01.660 --> 00:29:04.540 align:center very often requires more, while at the same time, 00:29:04.540 --> 00:29:06.370 align:center the ableist commitment to its more 00:29:06.370 --> 00:29:09.310 align:center is very much an enemy of accessibility. 00:29:09.310 --> 00:29:12.040 align:center We have to have conversations about how to fully include 00:29:12.040 --> 00:29:14.770 align:center more people and do more for more people, 00:29:14.770 --> 00:29:17.860 align:center while recognizing that might require doing less in ways, 00:29:17.860 --> 00:29:21.800 align:center eliminating a catered meal at a conference 00:29:21.800 --> 00:29:25.510 align:center so to fund captioning services, or having even fewer campus 00:29:25.510 --> 00:29:29.530 align:center speakers but creating robust participation options for those 00:29:29.530 --> 00:29:30.760 align:center that are held. 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:33.580 align:center Such questions of more and the challenges of more 00:29:33.580 --> 00:29:36.680 align:center are always occurring within manufactured scarcity. 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.100 align:center And that scarcity and the manufacturing of it 00:29:39.100 --> 00:29:41.950 align:center are also an enemy of inclusion and accessibility, 00:29:41.950 --> 00:29:45.220 align:center while also very much being a defense of the ableist norm. 00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:49.388 align:center How often do we hear, "Oh, if only if we could?" 00:29:49.388 --> 00:29:51.430 align:center And I'm also thinking about more with my teaching 00:29:51.430 --> 00:29:52.490 align:center and administrative work. 00:29:52.490 --> 00:29:54.640 align:center That's something, I guess, that's 00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.760 align:center kind of a space that's not-- 00:29:57.760 --> 00:30:00.490 align:center I find it special, and my teaching, my admin, 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:02.560 align:center and my scholarship all do go together. 00:30:02.560 --> 00:30:06.970 align:center And that's where I spend a lot of my mental and work space 00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:10.420 align:center and labor on a daily basis, how student and faculty 00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:13.210 align:center accommodations require more paperwork, more disclosure, 00:30:13.210 --> 00:30:16.690 align:center more labor, how intercessions to help struggling quote unquote 00:30:16.690 --> 00:30:18.490 align:center "struggling students" demand that doing 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:21.370 align:center of more that's placed on top of an already too much, 00:30:21.370 --> 00:30:24.400 align:center that refuses to acknowledge and give attention to the material 00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:26.080 align:center conditions of teaching and learning, 00:30:26.080 --> 00:30:28.270 align:center and how the demands of the normal 00:30:28.270 --> 00:30:31.150 align:center are demands of more, that are in favor of the privilege 00:30:31.150 --> 00:30:33.700 align:center and against accessibility and inclusion for so many. 00:30:40.257 --> 00:30:41.590 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Thank you, Matt. 00:30:41.590 --> 00:30:42.520 align:center That's awesome. 00:30:42.520 --> 00:30:44.320 align:center And I think I found a link to your article 00:30:44.320 --> 00:30:45.910 align:center and dropped that in the chat, too. 00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:47.570 align:center MATTHEW DOWELL: Thank you. 00:30:47.570 --> 00:30:50.050 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: So I have some questions that are things 00:30:50.050 --> 00:30:52.040 align:center that I've thought about ahead of time. 00:30:52.040 --> 00:30:54.260 align:center I know many of you probably have questions as well. 00:30:54.260 --> 00:30:57.160 align:center I invite folks to drop questions in the chat 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:01.120 align:center or raise their hand, too, as we continue our discussion. 00:31:04.650 --> 00:31:06.720 align:center I guess one of the questions I'm thinking about 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.480 align:center is, how do we continue to push back 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.850 align:center on organizations that are prioritizing 00:31:13.850 --> 00:31:16.070 align:center in-person interaction? 00:31:16.070 --> 00:31:18.260 align:center And I think often what I'm hearing 00:31:18.260 --> 00:31:22.880 align:center is that it's too expensive, and it's too time-consuming. 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.060 align:center And how do we find-- 00:31:25.060 --> 00:31:28.420 align:center I don't know-- how can we advocate there 00:31:28.420 --> 00:31:31.990 align:center while recognizing those issues that keep getting raised? 00:31:39.540 --> 00:31:40.040 align:center I'll share. 00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:42.470 align:center I was surprised recently when someone shared with me 00:31:42.470 --> 00:31:45.140 align:center that for a conference they were involved organizing, 00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:48.320 align:center the hotel was going to charge hundreds of thousands 00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:52.370 align:center of dollars if anything was made available online. 00:31:52.370 --> 00:31:57.190 align:center Because the hotel was losing business if part of the meeting 00:31:57.190 --> 00:31:59.380 align:center was online and folks weren't coming and spending 00:31:59.380 --> 00:32:02.710 align:center their money to stay at the hotel, to buy food, et cetera. 00:32:02.710 --> 00:32:06.170 align:center And I think that was really eye-opening to me. 00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:09.190 align:center So it's not just the extra AV costs 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.580 align:center of making a meeting accessible in terms 00:32:12.580 --> 00:32:17.560 align:center of having enough microphones and enough bandwidth that folks 00:32:17.560 --> 00:32:20.497 align:center could do an online meeting. 00:32:20.497 --> 00:32:22.080 align:center Stephani, I know you guys have thought 00:32:22.080 --> 00:32:23.740 align:center a lot about hybrid meetings. 00:32:23.740 --> 00:32:26.130 align:center And I know the one I attended where everybody 00:32:26.130 --> 00:32:28.770 align:center did COVID tests every day, I felt safer 00:32:28.770 --> 00:32:30.618 align:center than I have in other contexts. 00:32:30.618 --> 00:32:32.160 align:center I don't know if you have any thoughts 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.390 align:center from an organizational perspective. 00:32:35.390 --> 00:32:36.200 align:center STEPHANI PAGE: Yes. 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.510 align:center I think, from an organizational perspective, 00:32:38.510 --> 00:32:41.060 align:center a lot of the things that I think about. 00:32:41.060 --> 00:32:46.490 align:center And I will just give folks a preview of some of the things 00:32:46.490 --> 00:32:51.650 align:center that I've done, or that we've done within my organization, 00:32:51.650 --> 00:32:52.430 align:center or that I've done. 00:32:52.430 --> 00:32:56.780 align:center I was recently on a steering committee 00:32:56.780 --> 00:32:59.450 align:center just in terms of maintaining accessibility. 00:32:59.450 --> 00:33:00.630 align:center And I'll try to find it. 00:33:00.630 --> 00:33:02.430 align:center There's a really good-- 00:33:02.430 --> 00:33:05.030 align:center Some groups have just kind of worked together, 00:33:05.030 --> 00:33:11.540 align:center just to pull together just really as specific 00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:15.770 align:center and as-long-as-they-need-to-be lists that really bring 00:33:15.770 --> 00:33:18.360 align:center together, well, if you're going to be in person, 00:33:18.360 --> 00:33:22.250 align:center these are the things that you need to do, 00:33:22.250 --> 00:33:25.490 align:center down to "do you have refrigerators for folks who 00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:26.810 align:center need insulin?" 00:33:26.810 --> 00:33:32.090 align:center And that actually ended up being a life-saving piece for someone 00:33:32.090 --> 00:33:38.330 align:center who attended a conference just last week, earlier this month. 00:33:38.330 --> 00:33:39.860 align:center We require masking. 00:33:39.860 --> 00:33:42.860 align:center We require proof of vaccination. 00:33:42.860 --> 00:33:46.640 align:center For the smaller meetings that we have, 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.430 align:center we bring tests for participants to test daily. 00:33:52.430 --> 00:33:54.320 align:center And then we encourage testing. 00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:57.680 align:center We have a larger meeting, and we encourage testing. 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.710 align:center But down to our keynotes when people 00:34:00.710 --> 00:34:03.650 align:center are speaking at the microphone, they are masked, 00:34:03.650 --> 00:34:06.800 align:center and that's what we ask. 00:34:06.800 --> 00:34:14.645 align:center We do allow for individuals who need to have the masks that 00:34:14.645 --> 00:34:17.090 align:center are built for mouth reading-- 00:34:17.090 --> 00:34:18.830 align:center or lip reading, excuse me. 00:34:18.830 --> 00:34:24.590 align:center But still, where we sit, we are so far from optimal. 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:26.420 align:center And so what do we continue to say? 00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:29.659 align:center Because people are now in this space of before you 00:34:29.659 --> 00:34:35.540 align:center can make that argument or advocate, just like you said, 00:34:35.540 --> 00:34:37.906 align:center it's that a lot of hotels are limiting, 00:34:37.906 --> 00:34:39.739 align:center a lot of conference sites are even limiting. 00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:42.170 align:center They won't even go to the bandwidth 00:34:42.170 --> 00:34:47.449 align:center for the hybrid options to be functional beyond. 00:34:47.449 --> 00:34:52.159 align:center Something that we are doing is we are 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:56.690 align:center streaming our plenary sessions. 00:34:56.690 --> 00:35:01.610 align:center But that means that for the interactions that come along 00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:05.683 align:center with all of the many different amazing folks who 00:35:05.683 --> 00:35:07.100 align:center are going to be sharing their work 00:35:07.100 --> 00:35:11.280 align:center through the concurrent sessions, they miss that. 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.450 align:center And then, how do we have the discussions-- 00:35:14.450 --> 00:35:18.560 align:center and I know I feel like I'm asking more questions than I'm 00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:19.850 align:center giving answers. 00:35:19.850 --> 00:35:28.190 align:center How do we deal with the fact that the overall tone is 00:35:28.190 --> 00:35:30.360 align:center we have to be in person, we have to be in person, 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.170 align:center we have to be in person for this to work. 00:35:36.170 --> 00:35:37.820 align:center It's the being together in person. 00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:39.810 align:center It's the community engagement. 00:35:39.810 --> 00:35:45.220 align:center And then, when we are really sitting down and looking 00:35:45.220 --> 00:35:49.510 align:center at the combination of what are all the things that we would 00:35:49.510 --> 00:35:55.150 align:center need in order to ensure that everyone experiences 00:35:55.150 --> 00:35:58.790 align:center the same security and safety in the space, 00:35:58.790 --> 00:36:02.270 align:center and then when we talk about the opposite side of that 00:36:02.270 --> 00:36:08.500 align:center is how do we really, how do we really 00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:11.500 align:center then facilitate the same? 00:36:11.500 --> 00:36:14.980 align:center Folks in just the online space and setting, 00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:17.440 align:center even in a totally remote setting, 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.750 align:center how do we ensure that that connectivity is there? 00:36:21.750 --> 00:36:24.930 align:center And for me, I just I feel extremely 00:36:24.930 --> 00:36:33.870 align:center overwhelmed by the topic and challenged a lot. 00:36:33.870 --> 00:36:38.100 align:center Because normal is a scary word for me. 00:36:38.100 --> 00:36:42.360 align:center I don't know if anyone else feels that way. 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:46.320 align:center And so back to normal is actually really unsettling. 00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:50.640 align:center People continue to say it. 00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:52.770 align:center My son is one of those kids that still 00:36:52.770 --> 00:36:55.320 align:center masks when he goes to school. 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.030 align:center We still mask when we go to the grocery store. 00:36:58.030 --> 00:37:01.350 align:center When we are out in public, we still mask. 00:37:01.350 --> 00:37:04.830 align:center We still mask when we travel. 00:37:04.830 --> 00:37:11.940 align:center And this idea of back to normal in all the many layers, I 00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:13.740 align:center think there's a facade that we're 00:37:13.740 --> 00:37:16.240 align:center supposed to be helping hold up. 00:37:16.240 --> 00:37:20.370 align:center And I do feel like organizations like mine 00:37:20.370 --> 00:37:22.950 align:center are sitting in that push and pull 00:37:22.950 --> 00:37:29.160 align:center about what's the facade that people desire right now? 00:37:29.160 --> 00:37:31.710 align:center So I'll hush because I don't know 00:37:31.710 --> 00:37:34.650 align:center that I answered as much as I just 00:37:34.650 --> 00:37:38.130 align:center shared some of the pieces that are on my mind 00:37:38.130 --> 00:37:41.430 align:center and that we think a lot about. 00:37:41.430 --> 00:37:45.470 align:center MATTHEW DOWELL: I can jump in a little bit about my work 00:37:45.470 --> 00:37:48.740 align:center with the professional organization in my field. 00:37:48.740 --> 00:37:52.650 align:center And the way I got into that was I 00:37:52.650 --> 00:37:54.930 align:center just said, hey, I'd like to help with this conference. 00:37:54.930 --> 00:37:56.190 align:center It's going to be in Baltimore. 00:37:56.190 --> 00:37:57.720 align:center I live in Baltimore. 00:37:57.720 --> 00:37:58.920 align:center I'd like to be helpful. 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.300 align:center And somebody said, well, how do you want to help? 00:38:01.300 --> 00:38:03.133 align:center And I was like, well, if I'm going to do it, 00:38:03.133 --> 00:38:07.980 align:center I want to learn more about accessibility and things. 00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:11.790 align:center Because for the longest time I'd been pretty ableist to myself 00:38:11.790 --> 00:38:13.620 align:center about these things, then picked up 00:38:13.620 --> 00:38:16.350 align:center a second illness in 2017 that changed 00:38:16.350 --> 00:38:17.700 align:center my life pretty drastically. 00:38:17.700 --> 00:38:19.930 align:center And I was like, OK, I'm done with that. 00:38:19.930 --> 00:38:21.990 align:center And one of the things I think-- because there's 00:38:21.990 --> 00:38:24.390 align:center a question of how do we make, how do we 00:38:24.390 --> 00:38:25.980 align:center create better accessibility? 00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:28.170 align:center And sometimes those are technocratic solutions. 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:32.520 align:center Sometimes it is very budgetarily based. 00:38:32.520 --> 00:38:34.410 align:center Who is underwriting this? 00:38:34.410 --> 00:38:36.300 align:center If you're a national organization 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.760 align:center and you have funding from a major-- 00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.640 align:center I mean, even in CTE in our field, 00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:45.360 align:center it allows things to be done that a small organization like CWPA 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:46.770 align:center probably can't do. 00:38:46.770 --> 00:38:50.160 align:center And that's a real challenge, but it's also-- 00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:52.500 align:center I think part of it, you have to go back and examine 00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:53.940 align:center the histories of the organization, 00:38:53.940 --> 00:38:55.898 align:center and how we got to the decisions that we got to, 00:38:55.898 --> 00:38:59.070 align:center and why are we doing what we're doing? 00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:01.320 align:center I'm going to quote Raymond Williams for a second time 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.010 align:center here, but tradition is an active social process. 00:39:05.010 --> 00:39:07.560 align:center Tradition is influencing the decisions 00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:10.230 align:center we're making and biasing the decisions we're making. 00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:13.140 align:center And that's why normal is a scary word. 00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:18.150 align:center And for my organization-- and this is glossing a little bit, 00:39:18.150 --> 00:39:21.240 align:center but it's a long conference. 00:39:21.240 --> 00:39:23.700 align:center It has an Institute that precedes it. 00:39:23.700 --> 00:39:26.310 align:center I did the new writing program administrator 00:39:26.310 --> 00:39:29.190 align:center part of the conference in 2017 in Knoxville, 00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:33.090 align:center and I was in Knoxville for, I think, eight or nine days 00:39:33.090 --> 00:39:37.140 align:center and got funding from my dean to do that. 00:39:37.140 --> 00:39:40.330 align:center That was more than my travel budget, and it was great. 00:39:40.330 --> 00:39:42.030 align:center I loved it. 00:39:42.030 --> 00:39:45.150 align:center But the thing is, our conference-- and people 00:39:45.150 --> 00:39:47.340 align:center disagree with me on this-- but this conference, 00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:48.870 align:center this organization, has historically 00:39:48.870 --> 00:39:50.380 align:center been a summer vacation. 00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:52.260 align:center That's what it's been. 00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:55.985 align:center And people make it that, often historically bringing 00:39:55.985 --> 00:39:56.610 align:center their families. 00:39:56.610 --> 00:39:58.890 align:center You can think historically 20, 30 years ago 00:39:58.890 --> 00:40:01.740 align:center who these people that were coming to this conference. 00:40:01.740 --> 00:40:04.320 align:center And at some level, the academic conference model 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:06.870 align:center is so outdated, we should just be done with it. 00:40:06.870 --> 00:40:09.180 align:center That's part of the conversation we should be having, 00:40:09.180 --> 00:40:12.210 align:center that traveling nationally and internationally-- 00:40:12.210 --> 00:40:16.200 align:center and I've gone to conferences for 15 years, 00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:18.150 align:center and at some point not doing it-- 00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:21.540 align:center I haven't done it because 2019 was in Baltimore, 00:40:21.540 --> 00:40:25.260 align:center I haven't been to a national conference since 2018 00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:26.760 align:center and might never go back. 00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.533 align:center And people-- I always want to stop. 00:40:28.533 --> 00:40:29.950 align:center These people have called me a lot. 00:40:29.950 --> 00:40:31.367 align:center I have the institutional privilege 00:40:31.367 --> 00:40:32.580 align:center to never need to go back. 00:40:32.580 --> 00:40:36.060 align:center I feel for grad students who need their work to be published 00:40:36.060 --> 00:40:39.990 align:center and early career people that need to make connections. 00:40:39.990 --> 00:40:44.910 align:center There is a bias to face to face interaction. 00:40:44.910 --> 00:40:46.140 align:center So that is a real thing. 00:40:46.140 --> 00:40:48.278 align:center I have the privilege to say I'm never going back 00:40:48.278 --> 00:40:49.320 align:center to a national conference. 00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.060 align:center And the one thing I realized being away 00:40:51.060 --> 00:40:54.880 align:center is, I don't want to take all the diabetic supplies. 00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:58.980 align:center I don't want to take the emergency things. 00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.840 align:center I don't want to get sick in a city 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:03.010 align:center where my doctors aren't and end up in a hospital. 00:41:03.010 --> 00:41:05.700 align:center I don't want to do any of that for an academic conference. 00:41:05.700 --> 00:41:10.230 align:center But the bias of face to face as the value of it, 00:41:10.230 --> 00:41:13.090 align:center and, well, we've always done it this way. 00:41:13.090 --> 00:41:16.050 align:center If I can quickly move back to 2019. 00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:18.660 align:center That was the first conference where we had CART services. 00:41:18.660 --> 00:41:20.760 align:center And we had CART services because my dean 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.680 align:center was willing to fund the CART services. 00:41:22.680 --> 00:41:24.000 align:center So you get these sponsors-- 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.420 align:center often in my world, the sponsors are textbook publishers, 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.070 align:center and they'll sponsor breakfasts. 00:41:29.070 --> 00:41:30.780 align:center They'll sponsor a reception. 00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:35.070 align:center The Norton reception at 4 Cs, the big writing conference, 00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:38.010 align:center is elaborate. 00:41:38.010 --> 00:41:40.140 align:center There's just, historically, food everywhere. 00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:44.490 align:center But no one offers to fund accessibility 00:41:44.490 --> 00:41:45.930 align:center or accommodations. 00:41:45.930 --> 00:41:48.390 align:center We had to get outside CART funding. 00:41:48.390 --> 00:41:51.540 align:center But then people are up on the podium at breakfast, 00:41:51.540 --> 00:41:54.060 align:center at catered breakfasts, telling you about their annotation 00:41:54.060 --> 00:41:55.650 align:center software. 00:41:55.650 --> 00:41:57.720 align:center And they paid to have that right. 00:41:57.720 --> 00:42:00.870 align:center But no one's paying to fund accommodations 00:42:00.870 --> 00:42:01.710 align:center and accessibility. 00:42:01.710 --> 00:42:03.900 align:center And because of the traditions of the organizations, 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.310 align:center I don't think a lot of organizations 00:42:05.310 --> 00:42:06.990 align:center are sitting there saying, we're having people 00:42:06.990 --> 00:42:08.160 align:center sponsor the wrong things. 00:42:11.107 --> 00:42:12.940 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Emmanuelle, I see your hand. 00:42:17.220 --> 00:42:18.477 align:center You're muted. 00:42:18.477 --> 00:42:19.560 align:center EMMANUELLE MARQUIS: Sorry. 00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:22.380 align:center Just building on what Matt just said, just thinking. 00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:24.390 align:center So the example I'm going to take is 00:42:24.390 --> 00:42:29.500 align:center a large scientific conference that happens every year. 00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:33.870 align:center And what I'm finding is that their purpose is to make money 00:42:33.870 --> 00:42:37.020 align:center as a society, which I was not aware of, 00:42:37.020 --> 00:42:38.670 align:center but I guess I found very scary. 00:42:38.670 --> 00:42:42.810 align:center And in terms of disability inclusion, 00:42:42.810 --> 00:42:48.120 align:center there's a lot of inertia to reinvent what a conference is. 00:42:48.120 --> 00:42:54.490 align:center And I think all these societies are very risk averse. 00:42:54.490 --> 00:42:58.470 align:center So I've tried, and others have tried as well, 00:42:58.470 --> 00:43:01.020 align:center to try to have the conversation of finding new ways 00:43:01.020 --> 00:43:03.090 align:center and find allies. 00:43:03.090 --> 00:43:06.598 align:center Because we all know that accommodations benefit far more 00:43:06.598 --> 00:43:08.640 align:center than just the people that the accommodations were 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:10.240 align:center designed for. 00:43:10.240 --> 00:43:14.490 align:center So having online participation to a conference 00:43:14.490 --> 00:43:16.740 align:center would benefit, say, if the conference is in the US, 00:43:16.740 --> 00:43:18.750 align:center all the Asian participants that can't come 00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:21.600 align:center will travel to the US due to Visa issues, for instance. 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:23.080 align:center Or all the caregivers. 00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:29.040 align:center Or the environmentally conscious citizens that don't want 00:43:29.040 --> 00:43:30.810 align:center to fly or anything. 00:43:30.810 --> 00:43:33.450 align:center So it goes, I think it goes far beyond just 00:43:33.450 --> 00:43:34.990 align:center the disability discussion. 00:43:34.990 --> 00:43:37.410 align:center But what I find is that these societies just 00:43:37.410 --> 00:43:39.455 align:center don't want to consider this. 00:43:39.455 --> 00:43:40.830 align:center And so the question is, how do we 00:43:40.830 --> 00:43:42.510 align:center address the lack of imagination to be 00:43:42.510 --> 00:43:45.600 align:center able to reinvent what the model of a conference is 00:43:45.600 --> 00:43:48.910 align:center and what the purpose and how it can function? 00:43:48.910 --> 00:43:52.300 align:center And I think this is where I'm stuck at the moment. 00:43:52.300 --> 00:43:54.060 align:center And I think we have the same conversations 00:43:54.060 --> 00:43:57.360 align:center with funding agencies like NSF. 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.090 align:center I was recently involved in a large proposal, 00:44:00.090 --> 00:44:03.000 align:center and the last step that we had to do was to travel to DC. 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.090 align:center And there was no discussion possible about the fact 00:44:06.090 --> 00:44:08.220 align:center that some of us could not travel. 00:44:08.220 --> 00:44:12.150 align:center If we didn't travel, then we were out of the competition. 00:44:12.150 --> 00:44:15.390 align:center And that was a very eye-opening moment 00:44:15.390 --> 00:44:17.250 align:center for how NSF deals with this. 00:44:20.785 --> 00:44:22.160 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: That's definitely 00:44:22.160 --> 00:44:24.570 align:center what I say about those kinds of things. 00:44:24.570 --> 00:44:25.963 align:center Victoria? 00:44:25.963 --> 00:44:26.880 align:center VICTORIA CHAVEZ: Yeah. 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:29.950 align:center So I'll share. 00:44:29.950 --> 00:44:34.300 align:center It's really difficult when you're not 00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:37.420 align:center in a position of power to be able to convince 00:44:37.420 --> 00:44:42.280 align:center these organizations and associations and conferences. 00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:48.100 align:center I have sent many emails and made many, many tweets, 00:44:48.100 --> 00:44:51.820 align:center calling in and calling out, offering solutions, offering 00:44:51.820 --> 00:44:53.680 align:center ideas. 00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:57.490 align:center But really, what I think it boils down to is 00:44:57.490 --> 00:45:02.430 align:center if you don't include us in the planning, 00:45:02.430 --> 00:45:05.380 align:center you're not going to be inclusive. 00:45:05.380 --> 00:45:09.960 align:center And so Brianna, with what you shared about a conference that 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.230 align:center realized, presumably after they had booked the hotel, 00:45:13.230 --> 00:45:16.020 align:center that there would be these extra costs, if this had been 00:45:16.020 --> 00:45:19.320 align:center something that was thought of way, way early 00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:23.190 align:center in the planning when you're even considering what places are 00:45:23.190 --> 00:45:25.200 align:center going to be considered, what hotels are going 00:45:25.200 --> 00:45:26.760 align:center to be considered, those are things 00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:29.070 align:center that we can ask as organizers. 00:45:29.070 --> 00:45:32.700 align:center We can say, hey, by the way, we are planning already 00:45:32.700 --> 00:45:33.510 align:center ahead of time. 00:45:33.510 --> 00:45:35.052 align:center These are the things that we're going 00:45:35.052 --> 00:45:36.810 align:center to do to be an inclusive conference, 00:45:36.810 --> 00:45:38.640 align:center an inclusive meeting, whatever it may be. 00:45:38.640 --> 00:45:41.100 align:center What are going to be all of the costs associated? 00:45:41.100 --> 00:45:46.910 align:center And associations, once-- hotels and conference 00:45:46.910 --> 00:45:48.410 align:center venues and everything, they're going 00:45:48.410 --> 00:45:49.620 align:center to make money off of this. 00:45:49.620 --> 00:45:52.880 align:center And so if that's something that we ask ahead of time, 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:54.770 align:center they can't back out afterwards. 00:45:54.770 --> 00:45:58.295 align:center And you can decide whether this is a place that you 00:45:58.295 --> 00:45:59.420 align:center want to host your event at. 00:45:59.420 --> 00:46:02.660 align:center And if conference venues start noticing, 00:46:02.660 --> 00:46:08.270 align:center oh, us trying to profit off of these things 00:46:08.270 --> 00:46:10.833 align:center mean that we're actually losing events, 00:46:10.833 --> 00:46:12.500 align:center then they're going to change their tone, 00:46:12.500 --> 00:46:14.570 align:center and they're not going to make these prices incredibly 00:46:14.570 --> 00:46:15.070 align:center egregious. 00:46:15.070 --> 00:46:18.020 align:center One of the things is after all of these cancellations 00:46:18.020 --> 00:46:21.470 align:center happened in 2020, all of these venues lost a lot of money. 00:46:21.470 --> 00:46:24.980 align:center And they are trying to make up for all of that loss 00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:27.385 align:center and realizing we can actually-- 00:46:27.385 --> 00:46:29.510 align:center It's the same thing that happened with eggs, right? 00:46:29.510 --> 00:46:31.910 align:center Yes, there was an egg shortage, but there was no reason 00:46:31.910 --> 00:46:34.010 align:center eggs should be $12 a dozen. 00:46:34.010 --> 00:46:37.190 align:center And companies profited a ton, and they said, well, 00:46:37.190 --> 00:46:39.500 align:center I mean, why should we lower the price? 00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:40.700 align:center People are going to pay. 00:46:40.700 --> 00:46:42.158 align:center If people are going to pay, they're 00:46:42.158 --> 00:46:45.000 align:center going to keep doing these terrible, terrible practices. 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:50.390 align:center And so I think having folks from the beginning who are thinking 00:46:50.390 --> 00:46:54.260 align:center about this and who can make sure that all of this 00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:56.580 align:center is included in the planning is really important. 00:46:56.580 --> 00:47:02.910 align:center And I think that there's also this idea of all or nothing. 00:47:02.910 --> 00:47:10.280 align:center And I think that making hybrid the norm 00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:11.570 align:center will have a huge impact. 00:47:11.570 --> 00:47:14.720 align:center And it will make things accessible to so many of us. 00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:19.010 align:center And also, I recognize that sometimes hybrid is not 00:47:19.010 --> 00:47:20.130 align:center going to work. 00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:22.340 align:center Sometimes there are things that if you 00:47:22.340 --> 00:47:24.980 align:center want to have a hybrid event, the people online are 00:47:24.980 --> 00:47:26.330 align:center going to feel like less than. 00:47:26.330 --> 00:47:28.530 align:center It's going to be a subpar experience. 00:47:28.530 --> 00:47:31.010 align:center And so there are some organizations that I've noticed 00:47:31.010 --> 00:47:36.650 align:center have been doing separate online and in-person events. 00:47:36.650 --> 00:47:39.140 align:center And I think that there is a lot of value in that 00:47:39.140 --> 00:47:40.890 align:center when it's done correctly. 00:47:40.890 --> 00:47:44.090 align:center Because it's the same thing where it's not 00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:46.700 align:center separate but equal like schools are, or schools 00:47:46.700 --> 00:47:49.520 align:center were, where it wasn't actually equal. 00:47:49.520 --> 00:47:53.720 align:center And so making sure that the way that these events are planned, 00:47:53.720 --> 00:47:56.120 align:center that the events are planned carefully and thoughtfully, 00:47:56.120 --> 00:47:59.250 align:center and that folks are making sure that there is-- 00:47:59.250 --> 00:48:04.060 align:center especially in academia, where there can be a-- 00:48:04.060 --> 00:48:06.440 align:center I mean, there is a tremendous sense of elitism. 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.140 align:center And so, oh, well, you attended the virtual conference, 00:48:09.140 --> 00:48:12.320 align:center so your publication is less worthy 00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:14.120 align:center or has less credit because you didn't 00:48:14.120 --> 00:48:15.770 align:center go to the in-person event. 00:48:15.770 --> 00:48:18.470 align:center And so making sure that the way that we are organizing 00:48:18.470 --> 00:48:21.260 align:center these things and marketing them and the value 00:48:21.260 --> 00:48:24.620 align:center that we are assigning to them is actually equal. 00:48:24.620 --> 00:48:29.270 align:center I know I attended the NCORE conference online, 00:48:29.270 --> 00:48:31.250 align:center and they actually hosted the online conference 00:48:31.250 --> 00:48:33.710 align:center before the in-person conference, which I really 00:48:33.710 --> 00:48:36.050 align:center appreciated because we didn't feel like an afterthought. 00:48:36.050 --> 00:48:38.330 align:center Like, oh, shoot, we forgot, and now we 00:48:38.330 --> 00:48:39.560 align:center have to do the virtual one. 00:48:39.560 --> 00:48:43.490 align:center But it was very intentional, and it was a really, really great 00:48:43.490 --> 00:48:44.180 align:center experience. 00:48:44.180 --> 00:48:46.430 align:center And then they had the in-person one, 00:48:46.430 --> 00:48:50.660 align:center and there was some overlap in presenters, 00:48:50.660 --> 00:48:53.300 align:center but it wasn't necessarily a one to one. 00:48:53.300 --> 00:48:56.790 align:center And the online experience was phenomenal. 00:48:56.790 --> 00:49:03.200 align:center And I know ARA is also doing place-based. 00:49:03.200 --> 00:49:05.870 align:center I think is what they're calling the in-person, which I really 00:49:05.870 --> 00:49:08.630 align:center appreciate because just because I'm not in the room with you 00:49:08.630 --> 00:49:10.700 align:center doesn't mean I'm not in-person. 00:49:10.700 --> 00:49:13.260 align:center My person is physically here. 00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:16.160 align:center And so they're doing a place-based currently 00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:16.670 align:center in Chicago. 00:49:16.670 --> 00:49:18.050 align:center They did it last week in Chicago, 00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:20.780 align:center and in a couple of weeks, they're doing a virtual one. 00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:22.640 align:center And so it hasn't happened, so I don't 00:49:22.640 --> 00:49:23.960 align:center know what that'll be like. 00:49:23.960 --> 00:49:29.270 align:center But having avenues of you can participate. 00:49:29.270 --> 00:49:31.340 align:center Hybrid is a norm, and we'll try our best. 00:49:31.340 --> 00:49:32.780 align:center And we recognize that sometimes we 00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:36.620 align:center do want to have these separate spaces, and that's also OK. 00:49:36.620 --> 00:49:39.260 align:center And they're both just as valuable 00:49:39.260 --> 00:49:41.430 align:center and planned just as carefully. 00:49:41.430 --> 00:49:46.130 align:center And I think that that's really where the caveat is, 00:49:46.130 --> 00:49:49.790 align:center making sure that they really are planned carefully 00:49:49.790 --> 00:49:53.108 align:center and meaningfully and that they aren't-- and I'm all about 00:49:53.108 --> 00:49:53.900 align:center calling people out. 00:49:53.900 --> 00:49:56.232 align:center SIGCSE, for example, has been doing stuff hybrid, 00:49:56.232 --> 00:49:58.190 align:center and all of a sudden, they're like, oh, actually 00:49:58.190 --> 00:49:59.565 align:center hybrid is too expensive, so we're 00:49:59.565 --> 00:50:01.610 align:center going to do a virtual only thing. 00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:04.650 align:center But it's only going to be every other year. 00:50:04.650 --> 00:50:08.060 align:center So we're only going to be included every other year. 00:50:08.060 --> 00:50:08.970 align:center What does that mean? 00:50:08.970 --> 00:50:10.428 align:center What are you telling us when you're 00:50:10.428 --> 00:50:16.380 align:center saying that you'll only consider us once every other year? 00:50:16.380 --> 00:50:18.470 align:center And so just being really, really intentional 00:50:18.470 --> 00:50:21.650 align:center about what these policies are and how this marketing happens 00:50:21.650 --> 00:50:23.180 align:center is so, so important. 00:50:25.738 --> 00:50:27.780 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: I want to read a couple of things 00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:31.770 align:center from that chat, and then, Matt, I'll go to you. 00:50:31.770 --> 00:50:34.410 align:center Julie says, "it's frustrating that people, disabled people, 00:50:34.410 --> 00:50:36.723 align:center asked for virtual options for so long 00:50:36.723 --> 00:50:38.640 align:center and were told it can't be done, and then COVID 00:50:38.640 --> 00:50:39.850 align:center changed everything. 00:50:39.850 --> 00:50:42.415 align:center Now I feel sometimes people are pushing going back to normal 00:50:42.415 --> 00:50:44.040 align:center when there was no normal to begin with, 00:50:44.040 --> 00:50:47.380 align:center or the norm was inaccessible." 00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:49.300 align:center I agree with that 100%. 00:50:49.300 --> 00:50:51.880 align:center I think we definitely need to learn from some of what 00:50:51.880 --> 00:50:54.130 align:center we experienced in the pandemic. 00:50:54.130 --> 00:50:57.100 align:center Melissa asks, "How have you all been navigating 00:50:57.100 --> 00:50:58.210 align:center the return to normal? 00:50:58.210 --> 00:51:00.880 align:center I'm growing so weary of having to ask for access 00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:03.430 align:center and usually dealing with microaggressions as a result. 00:51:03.430 --> 00:51:05.440 align:center I'm moving toward just not asking, and thus, 00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.270 align:center not participating because I'm so tired. 00:51:07.270 --> 00:51:11.812 align:center Not good, but really a form of self preservation." 00:51:11.812 --> 00:51:13.770 align:center Sarah says, "I went to a conference in October, 00:51:13.770 --> 00:51:14.340 align:center and I regret it. 00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:15.965 align:center It's so much extra labor to plan around 00:51:15.965 --> 00:51:18.743 align:center my access needs without the mass disabling virus added on. 00:51:18.743 --> 00:51:20.160 align:center But this time, I had the added fun 00:51:20.160 --> 00:51:22.560 align:center of being asked why I was masking, despite signs 00:51:22.560 --> 00:51:26.000 align:center saying masks were required." 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.520 align:center And Liana says, "When we did the year of online conferences, 00:51:28.520 --> 00:51:30.560 align:center I had such an amazing time going to the Zoom talks 00:51:30.560 --> 00:51:32.450 align:center and then having conversations with the authors in the Zoom 00:51:32.450 --> 00:51:33.050 align:center rooms. 00:51:33.050 --> 00:51:34.467 align:center I do know it's hard for people who 00:51:34.467 --> 00:51:37.720 align:center have children living at home or roommates, pets, et cetera." 00:51:37.720 --> 00:51:38.220 align:center Excellent. 00:51:38.220 --> 00:51:40.290 align:center And I'm going to go to Matt and then Stephani. 00:51:40.290 --> 00:51:41.850 align:center And then maybe we can talk more about 00:51:41.850 --> 00:51:45.510 align:center how we react to our institutions, rather than just 00:51:45.510 --> 00:51:46.350 align:center conferences. 00:51:48.922 --> 00:51:51.130 align:center MATTHEW DOWELL: I had a few comments on institutions, 00:51:51.130 --> 00:51:52.490 align:center so I'll hold those. 00:51:52.490 --> 00:51:56.750 align:center But I mean, I'm good at thinking about these things 00:51:56.750 --> 00:52:00.780 align:center and sometimes bad at arriving at plans and solutions. 00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:03.433 align:center So I respect all of those of you who do. 00:52:03.433 --> 00:52:04.850 align:center I think one thing really important 00:52:04.850 --> 00:52:06.230 align:center that has come up in a few ways is 00:52:06.230 --> 00:52:08.630 align:center the disability, the accessibility, 00:52:08.630 --> 00:52:12.650 align:center the inclusion has to be out of the executive committee. 00:52:12.650 --> 00:52:16.700 align:center And this is something we've been fighting in our organization. 00:52:16.700 --> 00:52:19.730 align:center The other major-- there's really three big organizations 00:52:19.730 --> 00:52:20.900 align:center in the writ comp world. 00:52:20.900 --> 00:52:22.550 align:center I'm sure I'll leave some out. 00:52:22.550 --> 00:52:24.980 align:center Conference on College Composition and Communication, 00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:27.860 align:center Rhetoric Society of America, and CWPA. 00:52:27.860 --> 00:52:32.780 align:center And Cs has made this change, and I respect them 00:52:32.780 --> 00:52:36.410 align:center for it, which is making disability represented 00:52:36.410 --> 00:52:38.270 align:center on the executive committee. 00:52:38.270 --> 00:52:42.860 align:center Jay Dolmage talks about retrofits and supplements 00:52:42.860 --> 00:52:46.430 align:center and how often is the accessibility and disability 00:52:46.430 --> 00:52:49.400 align:center committee at the service of the normal? 00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:51.260 align:center I've had to navigate the space where 00:52:51.260 --> 00:52:53.660 align:center how much I want to be involved in trying 00:52:53.660 --> 00:52:56.540 align:center to make the face-to-face conference accessible 00:52:56.540 --> 00:52:58.610 align:center when I don't want any involvement 00:52:58.610 --> 00:53:01.250 align:center in a face-to-face conference, especially an unmasked 00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:02.630 align:center face-to-face conference. 00:53:02.630 --> 00:53:08.780 align:center I'm 100% entirely opposed and have made that clear. 00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:11.630 align:center But the way that organization is set up, 00:53:11.630 --> 00:53:14.270 align:center we're at the service of both the local committee 00:53:14.270 --> 00:53:15.958 align:center and the executive committee. 00:53:15.958 --> 00:53:17.750 align:center I don't want to say at their beck and call. 00:53:17.750 --> 00:53:19.430 align:center That's a little bit rough. 00:53:19.430 --> 00:53:22.400 align:center But we don't have the authority to stand on our own. 00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:24.410 align:center Nobody even came and consulted us and said, 00:53:24.410 --> 00:53:27.590 align:center what are your thoughts as the accessibility and disability 00:53:27.590 --> 00:53:31.250 align:center committee on having a face-to-face conference. 00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:33.680 align:center And two quick comments. 00:53:33.680 --> 00:53:36.390 align:center I liked the comment about in-person. 00:53:36.390 --> 00:53:39.440 align:center I've seen some people argue that saying on site 00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:41.360 align:center would be better language, and I do 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:46.160 align:center think language often matters in how we refer to these things. 00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:49.057 align:center Hybrid is difficult for all kinds of reasons. 00:53:49.057 --> 00:53:51.140 align:center But I think one of the things that gets left out-- 00:53:51.140 --> 00:53:54.410 align:center and I don't have an assistant director. 00:53:54.410 --> 00:53:56.760 align:center I run the program on my own. 00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:01.160 align:center And I don't want to run hybrid events, actually run them. 00:54:01.160 --> 00:54:02.960 align:center Because if I'm being quite frank, 00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:04.587 align:center the people most willing to unmask 00:54:04.587 --> 00:54:06.170 align:center are going to be in person, and I don't 00:54:06.170 --> 00:54:07.462 align:center want to be in person with them. 00:54:07.462 --> 00:54:11.480 align:center And somebody has to run the hybrid part of the event 00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:15.230 align:center to make it hybrid, and that's not really a risk 00:54:15.230 --> 00:54:17.330 align:center I'm willing to take on from people who don't 00:54:17.330 --> 00:54:19.550 align:center want to accommodate my needs. 00:54:19.550 --> 00:54:21.230 align:center And it's difficult in a labor standpoint 00:54:21.230 --> 00:54:23.690 align:center because I run the program, and there's 00:54:23.690 --> 00:54:26.270 align:center three of us who have some access to tenure 00:54:26.270 --> 00:54:30.180 align:center out of 30 people in the program, so it's a complicated thing. 00:54:30.180 --> 00:54:37.640 align:center And then finally, the part that is entirely being, I think, 00:54:37.640 --> 00:54:38.250 align:center ignored-- 00:54:38.250 --> 00:54:40.640 align:center and this isn't robust, full accessibility, 00:54:40.640 --> 00:54:43.940 align:center and I recognize that-- but masked face-to-face-- 00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:47.180 align:center Stephani, I appreciated what you said about your all's 00:54:47.180 --> 00:54:49.430 align:center is going to be masked in-person. 00:54:49.430 --> 00:54:52.100 align:center That's kind of like the scarlet letter of things, that, 00:54:52.100 --> 00:54:55.880 align:center oh, how dare we have masked anything. 00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:56.990 align:center I don't know. 00:54:56.990 --> 00:54:58.970 align:center I know some organizations are having masks, 00:54:58.970 --> 00:55:02.000 align:center but that it has to be face-to-face 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:05.750 align:center and it has to be unmasked is what we mean by the normal, 00:55:05.750 --> 00:55:07.145 align:center and that's part of the problem. 00:55:09.542 --> 00:55:10.500 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Thanks. 00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:11.000 align:center Stephani? 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.800 align:center STEPHANI Page: There was so much that both-- 00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:18.180 align:center well, I'm saying both-- 00:55:18.180 --> 00:55:23.700 align:center that Victoria said that I really want to pull forward. 00:55:23.700 --> 00:55:26.142 align:center Because I think a lot of times, too, organizations 00:55:26.142 --> 00:55:27.600 align:center don't, and institutions don't, want 00:55:27.600 --> 00:55:30.840 align:center to sit with the discomfort of when 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:36.930 align:center a need for a change or a shift is recognized and communicated. 00:55:36.930 --> 00:55:42.630 align:center And sometimes I think why I appreciate 00:55:42.630 --> 00:55:45.720 align:center being with the organization that I am with 00:55:45.720 --> 00:55:49.140 align:center is because we take that time. 00:55:49.140 --> 00:55:52.260 align:center Never mind that I explained my back story, 00:55:52.260 --> 00:55:54.150 align:center but the rest of-- we're a really small team, 00:55:54.150 --> 00:55:58.650 align:center but the rest of the leadership team actually are disabled, 00:55:58.650 --> 00:56:01.530 align:center one being a Black woman. 00:56:01.530 --> 00:56:06.120 align:center Our executive director, Dr. Ershela Sims, is a Black woman. 00:56:06.120 --> 00:56:09.390 align:center And thinking in a really layered sense 00:56:09.390 --> 00:56:12.180 align:center about the totality of the experience 00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:16.170 align:center that you want to create for folks 00:56:16.170 --> 00:56:18.270 align:center is really at the forefront. 00:56:18.270 --> 00:56:22.920 align:center But I think there's also a sense that if you don't feel 00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:25.022 align:center like you are empowered all the time, 00:56:25.022 --> 00:56:27.480 align:center or you don't feel like you have the resources all the time, 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.938 align:center or you don't feel like you have the knowledge all the time, 00:56:29.938 --> 00:56:31.515 align:center you should be open all the time. 00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:39.700 align:center For example, to give ourselves the runway to do more 00:56:39.700 --> 00:56:43.660 align:center and to make our meetings more accessible, 00:56:43.660 --> 00:56:45.280 align:center or she'll put her foot down and was 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.770 align:center like, no, we're starting now for next year, 00:56:47.770 --> 00:56:51.700 align:center where the last two years we had really, really short runways. 00:56:51.700 --> 00:56:55.630 align:center Because it might make things feel a little more 00:56:55.630 --> 00:57:00.400 align:center uncomfortable for us in terms of operationalizing our ideas. 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:03.070 align:center It might make things a little more comfortable for us 00:57:03.070 --> 00:57:06.100 align:center in terms of pursuing the financial resources to make 00:57:06.100 --> 00:57:11.500 align:center things happen, investing more time in the homework, more 00:57:11.500 --> 00:57:13.930 align:center time in the negotiations, which are always fun. 00:57:13.930 --> 00:57:17.860 align:center Negotiating with sites for conferences and meetings 00:57:17.860 --> 00:57:18.610 align:center are fun. 00:57:18.610 --> 00:57:27.170 align:center But you've got to, you have to sit with where you see 00:57:27.170 --> 00:57:33.240 align:center and have heard that your practices have resulted 00:57:33.240 --> 00:57:36.630 align:center or upheld someone else's exclusion or marginalization. 00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:39.270 align:center You just have to. 00:57:39.270 --> 00:57:44.700 align:center And I think in a lot of ways, organizations and institutions, 00:57:44.700 --> 00:57:48.360 align:center it's just not the way society works. 00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:50.460 align:center But again, that speaks to thinking 00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:54.360 align:center about systems of oppression and organization of power. 00:57:54.360 --> 00:57:58.470 align:center It's positioning themselves so that they don't have to. 00:57:58.470 --> 00:58:02.950 align:center And systems are also resistant to change. 00:58:02.950 --> 00:58:06.900 align:center But I think on an organizational level, 00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.140 align:center that constant confrontation is important. 00:58:10.140 --> 00:58:13.110 align:center And I don't mean confrontation like fights and arguments, 00:58:13.110 --> 00:58:16.140 align:center but that constant confrontation with the reality of what 00:58:16.140 --> 00:58:19.015 align:center it is to be oriented towards equity and justice, so then 00:58:19.015 --> 00:58:20.640 align:center what does that mean for your practices. 00:58:24.347 --> 00:58:25.430 align:center BRIANNA BLASER: Thank you. 00:58:25.430 --> 00:58:30.480 align:center I think we are just about time for our formal discussion here. 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:32.990 align:center And I want to thank you all for your thoughts. 00:58:32.990 --> 00:58:36.435 align:center Seeing some of the comments in the chat and in the Q and A, 00:58:36.435 --> 00:58:38.060 align:center I think there's a lot to be said of how 00:58:38.060 --> 00:58:42.680 align:center we have to keep raising issues around disability inclusion 00:58:42.680 --> 00:58:44.990 align:center and pandemic practices. 00:58:44.990 --> 00:58:49.080 align:center Because it's not solved. 00:58:49.080 --> 00:58:51.380 align:center We're still at a really hard point. 00:58:51.380 --> 00:58:54.590 align:center So join me in thanking our panelists 00:58:54.590 --> 00:58:57.780 align:center and sharing their experiences and their perspectives. 00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:02.390 align:center And again, we have time now for some informal discussion. 00:59:02.390 --> 00:59:04.730 align:center I invite you to join us, but we also 00:59:04.730 --> 00:59:07.500 align:center understand some folks will need to hop off.