WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.067 align:middle line:90% 00:00:07.067 --> 00:00:08.150 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Hi, folks. 00:00:08.150 --> 00:00:10.880 align:middle line:90% Thank you for joining us today. 00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:12.380 align:middle line:84% For those of you whom I don't know, 00:00:12.380 --> 00:00:16.790 align:middle line:84% my name's Brianna Blaser with AccessCSforAll. 00:00:16.790 --> 00:00:19.970 align:middle line:84% And we're happy to have you with us today. 00:00:19.970 --> 00:00:23.923 align:middle line:84% A couple things-- you can turn on the live transcript 00:00:23.923 --> 00:00:25.340 align:middle line:84% at the bottom of the screen if you 00:00:25.340 --> 00:00:28.400 align:middle line:90% want the automatic captions. 00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:30.620 align:middle line:84% And the other thing to note is that if you 00:00:30.620 --> 00:00:32.600 align:middle line:84% want to ask questions, you can raise your hand. 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:33.950 align:middle line:90% You can type in the chat. 00:00:33.950 --> 00:00:36.230 align:middle line:90% We'll take questions both ways. 00:00:36.230 --> 00:00:37.593 align:middle line:90% So I'm excited today. 00:00:37.593 --> 00:00:39.260 align:middle line:84% We're going to hear from Richard Ladner, 00:00:39.260 --> 00:00:42.920 align:middle line:84% our PI on AccessCSforAll and a professor emeritus 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.350 align:middle line:84% here at the University of Washington 00:00:45.350 --> 00:00:48.620 align:middle line:84% in the Paul G. Allen School of Computer Science 00:00:48.620 --> 00:00:50.360 align:middle line:90% and Engineering. 00:00:50.360 --> 00:00:52.610 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to turn it over to you, Richard. 00:00:52.610 --> 00:00:54.980 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Oh, thank you, Brianna. 00:00:54.980 --> 00:00:59.060 align:middle line:84% Yeah, Brianna Blaser is the associate director 00:00:59.060 --> 00:01:03.980 align:middle line:84% for AccessCSforAll and AccessComputing. 00:01:03.980 --> 00:01:08.930 align:middle line:84% So I want to welcome everybody to this webinar. 00:01:08.930 --> 00:01:11.930 align:middle line:84% It's similar to some webinars I've given in the past. 00:01:11.930 --> 00:01:13.950 align:middle line:90% But there are some differences. 00:01:13.950 --> 00:01:16.160 align:middle line:84% It's all about including students with disabilities 00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:18.140 align:middle line:90% in computer science education. 00:01:18.140 --> 00:01:21.050 align:middle line:90% 00:01:21.050 --> 00:01:26.090 align:middle line:84% So first, I'd like to start at who am I, Richard Ladner. 00:01:26.090 --> 00:01:32.120 align:middle line:84% And there is sort of the formal bio I have here. 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.300 align:middle line:84% I went to college in California at St. Mary's College. 00:01:35.300 --> 00:01:39.760 align:middle line:84% I got a PhD in mathematics in 1971. 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:43.780 align:middle line:84% I've been at the University of Washington for 51 years. 00:01:43.780 --> 00:01:47.530 align:middle line:90% I became emeritus in 2017. 00:01:47.530 --> 00:01:50.050 align:middle line:84% That means that I don't teach anymore. 00:01:50.050 --> 00:01:52.240 align:middle line:90% And I can only work part time. 00:01:52.240 --> 00:01:55.270 align:middle line:90% So I'm happy about that. 00:01:55.270 --> 00:01:58.330 align:middle line:84% I have a lot of current activities for doing-- 00:01:58.330 --> 00:02:03.070 align:middle line:84% this webinar is sponsored by AccessCSforAll. 00:02:03.070 --> 00:02:05.740 align:middle line:84% But I'm also the PI, or Principal Investigator, 00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:07.990 align:middle line:90% for AccessComputing. 00:02:07.990 --> 00:02:11.090 align:middle line:84% I also work on research, computer science education 00:02:11.090 --> 00:02:11.590 align:middle line:90% research. 00:02:11.590 --> 00:02:14.560 align:middle line:84% And one of my projects is, with Lauren Milne, 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.520 align:middle line:84% is an accessible blocks-based language called Blocks4All. 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.220 align:middle line:90% But it runs on iPad. 00:02:21.220 --> 00:02:26.020 align:middle line:84% And there is two hours of code if you're really interested. 00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:28.840 align:middle line:84% It does have an output as a robot, though. 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:30.310 align:middle line:90% So you have to have the robot. 00:02:30.310 --> 00:02:33.860 align:middle line:84% I have the robot, actually, behind me here. 00:02:33.860 --> 00:02:37.830 align:middle line:84% So let's see the little bash robot. 00:02:37.830 --> 00:02:40.110 align:middle line:84% I'm also the director of education 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:43.530 align:middle line:84% for the Center for Research and Education 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:46.620 align:middle line:84% on Accessible Technologies and Experiences 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:52.350 align:middle line:84% at the University of Washington, which is a new center largely 00:02:52.350 --> 00:02:55.480 align:middle line:90% sponsored by Microsoft. 00:02:55.480 --> 00:02:58.810 align:middle line:84% So when I think about-- this is kind of the formal stuff. 00:02:58.810 --> 00:03:03.960 align:middle line:84% But over the years, I realized I've done so much with K 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:06.570 align:middle line:84% through 12 even though I've been a professor 00:03:06.570 --> 00:03:09.880 align:middle line:84% at the University of Washington for such a long time. 00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:13.720 align:middle line:84% And it really goes back to the 1960s. 00:03:13.720 --> 00:03:16.680 align:middle line:84% When I was a graduate student at the University of California, 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.580 align:middle line:84% I taught math in elementary school in low-resource schools 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:21.750 align:middle line:90% as a graduate student. 00:03:21.750 --> 00:03:23.970 align:middle line:84% And that was-- I did that for about three years. 00:03:23.970 --> 00:03:25.530 align:middle line:84% And that was a lot of fun-- gave me 00:03:25.530 --> 00:03:31.400 align:middle line:84% a lot of exposure to young kids trying to learn math. 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.150 align:middle line:84% And then in the 1980s, I went to a middle school, 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:36.680 align:middle line:84% local middle school here in Seattle, 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:37.730 align:middle line:90% that had a deaf program. 00:03:37.730 --> 00:03:39.063 align:middle line:90% And I worked with deaf students. 00:03:39.063 --> 00:03:42.290 align:middle line:90% I taught Logo, of all things. 00:03:42.290 --> 00:03:44.000 align:middle line:84% And I tutored deaf students in math 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:45.590 align:middle line:84% at a high school, nearby high school, 00:03:45.590 --> 00:03:49.520 align:middle line:84% actually the same high school my daughter went to much later. 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:53.300 align:middle line:84% In the 1990s, I worked with the DO-IT center 00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:54.890 align:middle line:90% in their summer program. 00:03:54.890 --> 00:03:58.880 align:middle line:84% And for 7 years, I had a one-week Java-based workshop 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:01.010 align:middle line:84% for high school students with disabilities. 00:04:01.010 --> 00:04:05.300 align:middle line:84% And we actually wrote a paper about that experience. 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:07.040 align:middle line:84% And that was really interesting to work 00:04:07.040 --> 00:04:09.860 align:middle line:84% with all kinds of students with different disabilities. 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:13.010 align:middle line:84% I primarily have experience with deaf and blind. 00:04:13.010 --> 00:04:19.279 align:middle line:84% But all the other disabilities came into my view in the 1990s. 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:21.820 align:middle line:84% In the 2000s, I created the Summer Academy 00:04:21.820 --> 00:04:24.320 align:middle line:84% for Deaf and Hard of Hearing at the University of Washington 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:26.695 align:middle line:84% in computing, excuse me, at the University of Washington. 00:04:26.695 --> 00:04:29.400 align:middle line:90% And we ran that for seven years. 00:04:29.400 --> 00:04:32.390 align:middle line:84% It was a pretty extensive program, 10-week program. 00:04:32.390 --> 00:04:36.740 align:middle line:84% And we worked with, over that period of time, about 85 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:39.230 align:middle line:84% deaf and hard of hearing students. 00:04:39.230 --> 00:04:41.990 align:middle line:84% At least one of them has gone on and completed a PhD. 00:04:41.990 --> 00:04:43.730 align:middle line:84% So it's kind of interesting to see 00:04:43.730 --> 00:04:47.930 align:middle line:84% the growth of those students, former students. 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:50.930 align:middle line:84% We created the Summer Academy, which was a three-- 00:04:50.930 --> 00:04:52.640 align:middle line:84% which was a workshop over three years. 00:04:52.640 --> 00:04:57.410 align:middle line:84% It was on Saturday mornings not during football season. 00:04:57.410 --> 00:05:00.080 align:middle line:90% And it was eight weeks. 00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:04.160 align:middle line:84% And it was 3 and 1/2 hours with the students. 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.350 align:middle line:90% And that was kind of-- 00:05:06.350 --> 00:05:07.970 align:middle line:90% I learned all about Scratch. 00:05:07.970 --> 00:05:15.450 align:middle line:84% And we worked with other programming systems and so on. 00:05:15.450 --> 00:05:22.220 align:middle line:84% And then with my graduate student, Jeff Bigham, 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.550 align:middle line:84% we created the Chatbots workshop for the National Federation 00:05:25.550 --> 00:05:26.585 align:middle line:90% of the Blind Youth Slam. 00:05:26.585 --> 00:05:29.160 align:middle line:90% And we did that for two years. 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:30.410 align:middle line:90% And there, we had-- 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:35.180 align:middle line:84% that was a whole one week, maybe half a day for five days. 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:37.860 align:middle line:90% And that was a lot of fun. 00:05:37.860 --> 00:05:45.110 align:middle line:84% And then in the 2010s, Stefik and I did a two-week forum 00:05:45.110 --> 00:05:47.180 align:middle line:84% workshop for high school students 00:05:47.180 --> 00:05:50.360 align:middle line:90% and that was very interesting. 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:52.400 align:middle line:84% Not all those students had disabilities. 00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:53.870 align:middle line:90% But a few did. 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:55.760 align:middle line:84% And then that was when I started working 00:05:55.760 --> 00:06:03.660 align:middle line:84% on developing tools, accessible tools, for K through 12. 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:06.560 align:middle line:84% And so my involvement with K through 12 education 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:09.760 align:middle line:90% has been longstanding. 00:06:09.760 --> 00:06:12.720 align:middle line:84% And now I just want to talk about diversity, equity, 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:17.650 align:middle line:84% inclusion, and accessibility, so DEIA. 00:06:17.650 --> 00:06:20.410 align:middle line:84% And this idea of DEIA is not my idea. 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:23.380 align:middle line:84% It's actually an idea that was brought 00:06:23.380 --> 00:06:31.840 align:middle line:84% into my mind from a executive order by President Biden 00:06:31.840 --> 00:06:34.050 align:middle line:90% about a year ago. 00:06:34.050 --> 00:06:37.430 align:middle line:84% And just adding that accessibility to DEI 00:06:37.430 --> 00:06:39.950 align:middle line:90% really made sense to me. 00:06:39.950 --> 00:06:44.510 align:middle line:84% So when we think about students with disabilities, 00:06:44.510 --> 00:06:46.760 align:middle line:90% they come in two categories. 00:06:46.760 --> 00:06:50.050 align:middle line:84% One category are those that are served under IDEA. 00:06:50.050 --> 00:06:54.290 align:middle line:84% They're students who have individual education programs. 00:06:54.290 --> 00:06:56.890 align:middle line:84% There's about 7.3 million in the United States, 00:06:56.890 --> 00:07:01.690 align:middle line:84% which is about 14% of all students in that age group. 00:07:01.690 --> 00:07:04.480 align:middle line:84% And then there's students under Section 504 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.480 align:middle line:90% of the Rehabilitation Act. 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:09.460 align:middle line:84% These are students who receive accommodations. 00:07:09.460 --> 00:07:12.520 align:middle line:90% But they don't have IEPs. 00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:14.410 align:middle line:84% So their educational goals would be 00:07:14.410 --> 00:07:15.850 align:middle line:90% the same as all other students. 00:07:15.850 --> 00:07:18.050 align:middle line:90% But they do need accommodations. 00:07:18.050 --> 00:07:21.940 align:middle line:84% And this is about 1.4 million in the United States. 00:07:21.940 --> 00:07:26.120 align:middle line:84% So that's a total of about 16.7 million students, 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:27.340 align:middle line:90% which I did the average-- 00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:32.320 align:middle line:84% 130,000 or 131,000 schools in the United States. 00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:36.340 align:middle line:84% So that's about 65 kids per school, 00:07:36.340 --> 00:07:39.970 align:middle line:90% which is a substantial number. 00:07:39.970 --> 00:07:42.070 align:middle line:84% And they're spread rather thinly except 00:07:42.070 --> 00:07:45.880 align:middle line:84% at these special schools, of which I'm not 00:07:45.880 --> 00:07:47.860 align:middle line:90% sure how many there are-- 00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:52.480 align:middle line:84% probably 1,000 or 2,000 is my guess. 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.150 align:middle line:84% And they serve-- they're schools for the blind, 00:07:55.150 --> 00:07:57.160 align:middle line:84% schools for the deaf, and schools 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.482 align:middle line:84% for learning disabled students around the nation. 00:08:00.482 --> 00:08:01.690 align:middle line:90% And many of them are private. 00:08:01.690 --> 00:08:03.130 align:middle line:84% But some of them are also public. 00:08:03.130 --> 00:08:05.330 align:middle line:84% And some are part of school districts. 00:08:05.330 --> 00:08:09.010 align:middle line:84% So this is a big group of students with disabilities. 00:08:09.010 --> 00:08:12.220 align:middle line:84% And we certainly want them to be participating 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:15.520 align:middle line:90% in computer science. 00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:19.390 align:middle line:84% So last year in the State of Computer Science Education 00:08:19.390 --> 00:08:27.160 align:middle line:84% report, there actually was data gathered 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:30.980 align:middle line:84% from 19 states about their students with disabilities. 00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:33.280 align:middle line:84% And this was only the third year that this data 00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:34.480 align:middle line:90% has been gathered. 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:37.120 align:middle line:84% And I believe this year, 2022, there'll 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:40.750 align:middle line:84% be at least 23 states that are reporting this. 00:08:40.750 --> 00:08:42.730 align:middle line:84% And you'll see from this chart here 00:08:42.730 --> 00:08:50.632 align:middle line:84% that there's the 14% in general education that are under IDEA. 00:08:50.632 --> 00:08:52.090 align:middle line:84% But if you look at the students who 00:08:52.090 --> 00:08:55.840 align:middle line:84% are participating in computer science, only 9% 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:56.810 align:middle line:90% have disabilities. 00:08:56.810 --> 00:08:58.540 align:middle line:90% So there is a gap there. 00:08:58.540 --> 00:09:00.520 align:middle line:84% Now you might argue that some of these students 00:09:00.520 --> 00:09:03.430 align:middle line:84% have an intellectual disability and won't 00:09:03.430 --> 00:09:05.660 align:middle line:90% be able to participate. 00:09:05.660 --> 00:09:07.750 align:middle line:90% But that's a small number. 00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:10.750 align:middle line:84% It's not the vast majority of those students. 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:16.450 align:middle line:84% And for students with 504 plans, they are represented well. 00:09:16.450 --> 00:09:22.360 align:middle line:84% So 3.5% of students who are on 504 plans-- 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.030 align:middle line:84% take computer science are on 504 plans. 00:09:25.030 --> 00:09:29.480 align:middle line:84% And that's only about 2.7% of the student population. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:31.390 align:middle line:90% So that's a good sign. 00:09:31.390 --> 00:09:33.340 align:middle line:90% Things are doing better. 00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:38.170 align:middle line:84% I'm really anxious to see the 2022 data. 00:09:38.170 --> 00:09:40.930 align:middle line:84% So students under IDEA are classified 00:09:40.930 --> 00:09:43.030 align:middle line:90% into about 15 different groups. 00:09:43.030 --> 00:09:46.030 align:middle line:90% And I didn't list them all here. 00:09:46.030 --> 00:09:50.140 align:middle line:84% I listed the ones, the big ones, like learning disabilities-- 00:09:50.140 --> 00:09:54.020 align:middle line:84% 2.4 million-- speech and language, 1.4 million, 00:09:54.020 --> 00:09:55.450 align:middle line:90% and so on. 00:09:55.450 --> 00:09:58.150 align:middle line:90% Autism is a big number, 800,000. 00:09:58.150 --> 00:10:01.330 align:middle line:84% By the way, autism 10 years ago was more like 400,000. 00:10:01.330 --> 00:10:03.670 align:middle line:90% So it was much smaller. 00:10:03.670 --> 00:10:06.520 align:middle line:84% Developmental, intellectual-- that's that smaller group. 00:10:06.520 --> 00:10:10.120 align:middle line:84% Intellectual disabilities maybe would have difficulty taking 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.340 align:middle line:90% standard computer science-- 00:10:12.340 --> 00:10:15.700 align:middle line:84% and then emotional, hearing, mobility. 00:10:15.700 --> 00:10:19.720 align:middle line:84% So those people perhaps are in a wheelchair 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:25.340 align:middle line:84% or can't use their hands, can't use a mouse, and so on. 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:28.070 align:middle line:84% And then vision, those would be blind and visually impaired. 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:32.720 align:middle line:84% And then hearing would be deaf and hard of hearing. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.570 align:middle line:84% Now these groups at the bottom here 00:10:34.570 --> 00:10:37.060 align:middle line:84% are the ones that have the most difficult access 00:10:37.060 --> 00:10:38.900 align:middle line:90% to computers at all. 00:10:38.900 --> 00:10:41.830 align:middle line:84% So that's why one of the reasons that Stefik 00:10:41.830 --> 00:10:45.820 align:middle line:84% and I have worked hard on these groups. 00:10:45.820 --> 00:10:47.620 align:middle line:84% And I want to mention one important thing, 00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:50.500 align:middle line:84% that disability intersects all other demographics-- 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:53.600 align:middle line:90% gender, race, and ethnicity. 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:58.510 align:middle line:84% So when you look at these 7.3 million under IDEA, 00:10:58.510 --> 00:11:04.305 align:middle line:84% they're distributed among girls, among Black and African 00:11:04.305 --> 00:11:07.515 align:middle line:90% American, Hispanic, and so on. 00:11:07.515 --> 00:11:14.340 align:middle line:84% So it's not something that is separate from. 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:19.160 align:middle line:84% It intersects with these other demographics. 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:22.270 align:middle line:90% So who belongs in CS? 00:11:22.270 --> 00:11:25.120 align:middle line:90% Hopefully, all these students. 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:30.320 align:middle line:84% But I wanted to point out these people here. 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.480 align:middle line:84% It's not just an equity issue but a quality issue. 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.110 align:middle line:84% So all of these people that I've shown in this picture here, 00:11:36.110 --> 00:11:39.270 align:middle line:84% they all have a disability of one form or another. 00:11:39.270 --> 00:11:39.920 align:middle line:90% Some are blind. 00:11:39.920 --> 00:11:41.180 align:middle line:90% Some are deaf. 00:11:41.180 --> 00:11:44.540 align:middle line:90% Some have low vision. 00:11:44.540 --> 00:11:46.730 align:middle line:90% Some have ADHD. 00:11:46.730 --> 00:11:49.040 align:middle line:84% Some have health-related disabilities. 00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:53.780 align:middle line:84% And some have mobility-related disabilities and so on. 00:11:53.780 --> 00:11:56.000 align:middle line:90% And they all have PhDs. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:59.300 align:middle line:90% In fact, I know them all. 00:11:59.300 --> 00:12:02.330 align:middle line:84% And you can see they come in all different-- about half of them 00:12:02.330 --> 00:12:03.380 align:middle line:90% are women here. 00:12:03.380 --> 00:12:06.290 align:middle line:90% And about half of them are men. 00:12:06.290 --> 00:12:08.348 align:middle line:84% So these are the people that really have 00:12:08.348 --> 00:12:09.640 align:middle line:90% made a difference in computing. 00:12:09.640 --> 00:12:14.020 align:middle line:84% There's at least one Turing Award winner in here. 00:12:14.020 --> 00:12:16.570 align:middle line:84% There is a MacArthur winner, last year MacArthur winner, 00:12:16.570 --> 00:12:18.140 align:middle line:90% in this group. 00:12:18.140 --> 00:12:19.480 align:middle line:90% These are innovators. 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:24.150 align:middle line:84% And we need more people like them in our field. 00:12:24.150 --> 00:12:26.570 align:middle line:84% So my key takeaway from this piece 00:12:26.570 --> 00:12:29.570 align:middle line:84% is that competing fields need more people with disabilities. 00:12:29.570 --> 00:12:32.360 align:middle line:84% Because their perspectives and expertise 00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:34.400 align:middle line:90% lead to more innovation. 00:12:34.400 --> 00:12:36.050 align:middle line:90% So it's not just equity. 00:12:36.050 --> 00:12:39.790 align:middle line:90% It's also quality. 00:12:39.790 --> 00:12:42.700 align:middle line:84% So I wanted to talk about Nicole. 00:12:42.700 --> 00:12:47.920 align:middle line:84% Nicole is somebody I met maybe back in 2004 or '05, actually. 00:12:47.920 --> 00:12:51.300 align:middle line:84% But this picture might be from 2006 or a graduation picture 00:12:51.300 --> 00:12:52.520 align:middle line:90% from high school. 00:12:52.520 --> 00:12:54.270 align:middle line:84% And I met her when she was in high school. 00:12:54.270 --> 00:12:57.990 align:middle line:84% And she worked with me on a project. 00:12:57.990 --> 00:13:03.630 align:middle line:84% And then when she was in high school, one difficulty she had 00:13:03.630 --> 00:13:05.490 align:middle line:90% was access. 00:13:05.490 --> 00:13:09.340 align:middle line:84% In particular, she was a braille user. 00:13:09.340 --> 00:13:14.970 align:middle line:84% So in her math classes, she would produce her math 00:13:14.970 --> 00:13:15.600 align:middle line:90% in braille. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.720 align:middle line:84% But that would have to be translated for the teacher-- 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:20.640 align:middle line:90% so just a mainstream class. 00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:22.950 align:middle line:84% And she just needed that translated. 00:13:22.950 --> 00:13:28.080 align:middle line:84% And the translator was a TVI, a teacher of visually impaired. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.360 align:middle line:84% And they would come by once or twice a week 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:31.660 align:middle line:90% and do the translation. 00:13:31.660 --> 00:13:37.920 align:middle line:84% So she was not getting immediate feedback on her math. 00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:42.330 align:middle line:84% At the same time, she took computer science, AP computer 00:13:42.330 --> 00:13:45.720 align:middle line:84% science A. And I think there was a B at that time. 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.060 align:middle line:84% So she was pretty adept as a programmer. 00:13:49.060 --> 00:13:51.030 align:middle line:84% So she kind of had a brilliant idea. 00:13:51.030 --> 00:13:53.860 align:middle line:84% Now she's in high school at this point. 00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:58.760 align:middle line:84% And so her idea didn't come just out of the blue. 00:13:58.760 --> 00:14:00.650 align:middle line:84% It came because she came to a workshop 00:14:00.650 --> 00:14:03.170 align:middle line:84% here at the University of Washington that I held. 00:14:03.170 --> 00:14:07.760 align:middle line:84% And one of my graduate students, who was also blind, 00:14:07.760 --> 00:14:11.940 align:middle line:84% met her and told her about math accessibility. 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:14.690 align:middle line:84% And my student, my graduate student, 00:14:14.690 --> 00:14:19.670 align:middle line:84% used LaTeX, which is a markup language, famous markup 00:14:19.670 --> 00:14:21.710 align:middle line:90% language for math. 00:14:21.710 --> 00:14:23.690 align:middle line:84% And so Nicole, for the first time, 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:27.390 align:middle line:84% learned about LaTeX here at the University of Washington. 00:14:27.390 --> 00:14:30.180 align:middle line:84% And then when she went back to her high school, 00:14:30.180 --> 00:14:33.900 align:middle line:84% she had this sort of epiphany that maybe I 00:14:33.900 --> 00:14:35.820 align:middle line:90% should take my braille-- 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:39.360 align:middle line:84% because it is produced on a digital device 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.730 align:middle line:90% or a braille notetaker-- 00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:48.050 align:middle line:84% and write a program to convert that braille, the ASCII 00:14:48.050 --> 00:14:50.090 align:middle line:90% braille, into LaTeX. 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:52.430 align:middle line:84% And then that can be printed out. 00:14:52.430 --> 00:14:56.230 align:middle line:84% And so she did just that as a high school student. 00:14:56.230 --> 00:14:59.210 align:middle line:90% And so here's a picture of that. 00:14:59.210 --> 00:15:01.000 align:middle line:84% So at the very top there is the braille, 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:06.550 align:middle line:84% which has been annotated by somebody, by a braille reader. 00:15:06.550 --> 00:15:10.390 align:middle line:84% You can see-- and then if you look up the braille notetaker 00:15:10.390 --> 00:15:13.960 align:middle line:84% code, that's the ASCII code for the very same braille. 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.360 align:middle line:84% So every braille character corresponds 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.520 align:middle line:90% to an ASCII character. 00:15:18.520 --> 00:15:22.935 align:middle line:90% And then the Nemeth-- 00:15:22.935 --> 00:15:26.200 align:middle line:84% so you call it Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator. 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.480 align:middle line:84% That was the name of her product. 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.910 align:middle line:84% It would take that braille code and translate it 00:15:30.910 --> 00:15:33.890 align:middle line:84% to a LaTeX code, which is in the next segment. 00:15:33.890 --> 00:15:36.730 align:middle line:84% And finally, that LaTeX can be produced, 00:15:36.730 --> 00:15:38.853 align:middle line:90% can be converted to a PDF. 00:15:38.853 --> 00:15:40.520 align:middle line:84% And so at the very bottom of the screen, 00:15:40.520 --> 00:15:43.510 align:middle line:84% you can see the actual output that she 00:15:43.510 --> 00:15:45.220 align:middle line:90% could give to her teacher. 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.340 align:middle line:84% So at the top was something her teacher could not read. 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:51.710 align:middle line:84% At the bottom was the most beautiful math you can imagine. 00:15:51.710 --> 00:15:55.010 align:middle line:84% And so this is how she solved her own problem. 00:15:55.010 --> 00:15:59.380 align:middle line:84% So you can see why I talk about it's not just equity. 00:15:59.380 --> 00:16:00.640 align:middle line:90% It's quality. 00:16:00.640 --> 00:16:05.320 align:middle line:84% So this young woman decided to put together this program 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.870 align:middle line:84% and did it, even as a high school student. 00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:10.090 align:middle line:84% And I will tell you she went on to Stanford, 00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:12.160 align:middle line:84% and got a bachelor's degree in computer science, 00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:16.670 align:middle line:84% and has been working at Google for about the last 10 years. 00:16:16.670 --> 00:16:19.990 align:middle line:84% So she's a remarkable young woman. 00:16:19.990 --> 00:16:22.660 align:middle line:84% And I wanted to point this one out. 00:16:22.660 --> 00:16:25.270 align:middle line:84% I wanted to do one more in this segment. 00:16:25.270 --> 00:16:26.650 align:middle line:90% And that's Jake. 00:16:26.650 --> 00:16:32.330 align:middle line:84% And Jake worked in one of those programs that we had, 00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:37.570 align:middle line:84% which was a Quorum-based program, in the summer of 2016. 00:16:37.570 --> 00:16:40.150 align:middle line:84% And there's a picture of Jake along with Stefik. 00:16:40.150 --> 00:16:43.020 align:middle line:84% Because he was there, too, along with me. 00:16:43.020 --> 00:16:44.770 align:middle line:84% I don't think I took that picture, though. 00:16:44.770 --> 00:16:48.040 align:middle line:90% But Jake is autistic. 00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:53.730 align:middle line:84% And when he wanted to join our summer program, his mother came 00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:57.030 align:middle line:90% up to us and said, can he join? 00:16:57.030 --> 00:16:58.590 align:middle line:90% He's autistic. 00:16:58.590 --> 00:17:01.270 align:middle line:90% And I said, sure. 00:17:01.270 --> 00:17:02.080 align:middle line:90% Why not? 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.500 align:middle line:84% And so we brought him into the program. 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:09.330 align:middle line:84% And in this program in one week, all the students 00:17:09.330 --> 00:17:11.790 align:middle line:84% in that program, some of them formed teams. 00:17:11.790 --> 00:17:13.390 align:middle line:90% Some of them worked alone. 00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:16.890 align:middle line:84% But they each had a task to design and develop 00:17:16.890 --> 00:17:19.300 align:middle line:90% a little computer program. 00:17:19.300 --> 00:17:22.210 align:middle line:90% And that's what Jake did. 00:17:22.210 --> 00:17:26.990 align:middle line:84% Now in the beginning, Jake was very quiet. 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:28.190 align:middle line:90% He did ask for help. 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:31.780 align:middle line:84% And you can see Stefik helping him there. 00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:33.670 align:middle line:90% He had a very intricate design. 00:17:33.670 --> 00:17:37.420 align:middle line:84% He had a whole sheet of paper with a very intricate design. 00:17:37.420 --> 00:17:40.510 align:middle line:84% Both Stefik and I knew that was not possible to do in one week. 00:17:40.510 --> 00:17:42.280 align:middle line:90% And he scaled it back. 00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:44.620 align:middle line:84% So there was an internal dialogue 00:17:44.620 --> 00:17:48.100 align:middle line:90% with Jake over the week. 00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:51.700 align:middle line:84% The day he arrived, he had a hoodie on. 00:17:51.700 --> 00:17:53.590 align:middle line:90% And he was very quiet. 00:17:53.590 --> 00:17:58.360 align:middle line:84% And by the end, he had written this remarkable program. 00:17:58.360 --> 00:18:01.040 align:middle line:84% And I'll show you a picture of the output. 00:18:01.040 --> 00:18:03.610 align:middle line:84% So this is Jake's game that he programmed 00:18:03.610 --> 00:18:04.930 align:middle line:90% in the Quorum language. 00:18:04.930 --> 00:18:09.040 align:middle line:84% And just a little explanation-- that little square in there 00:18:09.040 --> 00:18:16.100 align:middle line:84% is something that you can move with the keys on the keyboard. 00:18:16.100 --> 00:18:19.960 align:middle line:84% You can make it sort of defy gravity and go up. 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.480 align:middle line:84% And you can make it go to the right or the left. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.087 align:middle line:84% And so you try to push it through this maze. 00:18:26.087 --> 00:18:27.670 align:middle line:84% And this is a little piece of the maze 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:29.230 align:middle line:90% that was much, much bigger. 00:18:29.230 --> 00:18:30.970 align:middle line:84% So you can imagine just producing 00:18:30.970 --> 00:18:33.490 align:middle line:84% the maze itself was a lot of code 00:18:33.490 --> 00:18:36.160 align:middle line:84% that he wrote to put in rectangles 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.960 align:middle line:84% and all sorts of things in there. 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.930 align:middle line:84% But he had to also write this pretty sophisticated code 00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:43.150 align:middle line:84% to make this little guy jump around 00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:46.300 align:middle line:90% in response to the keyboard. 00:18:46.300 --> 00:18:48.430 align:middle line:84% And in the end, among all the projects, 00:18:48.430 --> 00:18:51.340 align:middle line:84% this was actually the very best project. 00:18:51.340 --> 00:18:53.510 align:middle line:90% And I wish I could demo it. 00:18:53.510 --> 00:18:54.982 align:middle line:84% I don't have time to demo it today. 00:18:54.982 --> 00:18:56.440 align:middle line:84% But I still have it on my computer. 00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:57.790 align:middle line:90% And I could demo it. 00:18:57.790 --> 00:19:00.300 align:middle line:90% 00:19:00.300 --> 00:19:06.390 align:middle line:84% Anyway, in the end, all the students 00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:08.940 align:middle line:84% were asked if they wanted to give a presentation 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:14.250 align:middle line:84% on their game and on the code for the parents 00:19:14.250 --> 00:19:16.560 align:middle line:84% and their siblings and other friends that 00:19:16.560 --> 00:19:20.710 align:middle line:84% came to a sort of a event at the end of the week. 00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:24.630 align:middle line:84% And there was Jake, who stood up and talked about his code. 00:19:24.630 --> 00:19:27.240 align:middle line:84% And it was kind of int-- we didn't push him to do that. 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.860 align:middle line:90% He just wanted to do that. 00:19:28.860 --> 00:19:32.490 align:middle line:84% And his mother was rather astounded that he did this. 00:19:32.490 --> 00:19:34.840 align:middle line:84% Because he had never done this before. 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:36.750 align:middle line:84% And so there was something magical 00:19:36.750 --> 00:19:41.400 align:middle line:84% about Jake and programming that brought him out and got him 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:43.890 align:middle line:90% to sort of come out of a shell. 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:46.390 align:middle line:84% And I can't generalize from that. 00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:47.500 align:middle line:90% That was one example. 00:19:47.500 --> 00:19:50.850 align:middle line:84% But it does seem like there is a nice thing about computer 00:19:50.850 --> 00:19:53.550 align:middle line:84% programming that kids with autism 00:19:53.550 --> 00:19:55.620 align:middle line:90% may be very excited by this. 00:19:55.620 --> 00:19:58.680 align:middle line:84% And they love that detail work and did it. 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.180 align:middle line:90% So there's Jake. 00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:03.390 align:middle line:84% So here's two examples, Nicole and Jake, 00:20:03.390 --> 00:20:05.850 align:middle line:84% of students with disabilities who really thrive 00:20:05.850 --> 00:20:09.515 align:middle line:90% in the computing environment. 00:20:09.515 --> 00:20:11.390 align:middle line:84% So I'm going to take a little bit of a drink. 00:20:11.390 --> 00:20:19.900 align:middle line:90% 00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:24.170 align:middle line:84% So my next segment is, what does accessibility mean? 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:30.060 align:middle line:84% And for this, I'm going to talk about Raina. 00:20:30.060 --> 00:20:34.070 align:middle line:84% And Raina was a student in that Saturday program 00:20:34.070 --> 00:20:39.700 align:middle line:90% that we had back in 2013. 00:20:39.700 --> 00:20:42.220 align:middle line:90% And she has cerebral palsy. 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:43.780 align:middle line:90% She's also deaf. 00:20:43.780 --> 00:20:46.580 align:middle line:84% And she also has very low vision. 00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:48.880 align:middle line:84% So she had multiple disabilities. 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.670 align:middle line:84% But at the same time, she was really very bright. 00:20:51.670 --> 00:20:53.650 align:middle line:90% And she was quite a good writer. 00:20:53.650 --> 00:20:56.658 align:middle line:84% And I had seen some of the things she had written 00:20:56.658 --> 00:20:57.700 align:middle line:90% as a high school student. 00:20:57.700 --> 00:21:00.010 align:middle line:84% And she was a high school student at the time 00:21:00.010 --> 00:21:01.690 align:middle line:90% that she came into our program. 00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:03.370 align:middle line:84% And this was a eight-week program 00:21:03.370 --> 00:21:05.620 align:middle line:90% that ran on Saturday mornings. 00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:09.280 align:middle line:84% So in this program, they were all deaf kids in this program. 00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:12.340 align:middle line:84% But she was the only one with multiple disabilities. 00:21:12.340 --> 00:21:14.600 align:middle line:84% I think maybe another kid might have had autism. 00:21:14.600 --> 00:21:16.480 align:middle line:90% But we don't know for sure. 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.340 align:middle line:90% 00:21:19.340 --> 00:21:22.000 align:middle line:84% So we had sign language interpreters for everybody. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.290 align:middle line:90% And luckily, they were there. 00:21:23.290 --> 00:21:25.388 align:middle line:84% Because her signs were very distorted. 00:21:25.388 --> 00:21:26.930 align:middle line:84% And it was hard for me to understand. 00:21:26.930 --> 00:21:30.060 align:middle line:84% But luckily, our sign language interpreters were very skilled 00:21:30.060 --> 00:21:33.160 align:middle line:84% and were able to understand what she was saying. 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:35.290 align:middle line:84% And of course, she can understand sign language 00:21:35.290 --> 00:21:36.410 align:middle line:90% as well. 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:40.720 align:middle line:84% So we had sign language access to this program. 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.440 align:middle line:84% Anyway, so I'm not going to talk about what 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.860 align:middle line:84% she did so much as the needs that she 00:21:47.860 --> 00:21:53.150 align:middle line:84% had to be able to participate to even use a computer. 00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:56.700 align:middle line:84% In fact, in this picture on the right bottom, 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.820 align:middle line:84% there is a device, which was a device 00:21:59.820 --> 00:22:03.540 align:middle line:84% that she brought with her, which was a communication 00:22:03.540 --> 00:22:05.610 align:middle line:90% board that she could use. 00:22:05.610 --> 00:22:08.280 align:middle line:84% By pushing a button, she could have that thing talk 00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:10.988 align:middle line:84% and give some intention that she wanted to say. 00:22:10.988 --> 00:22:12.780 align:middle line:84% So there's actually-- it's in this picture. 00:22:12.780 --> 00:22:14.710 align:middle line:84% But she had a bunch of other technology, too. 00:22:14.710 --> 00:22:19.040 align:middle line:84% And there's another picture of Raina. 00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:21.240 align:middle line:90% She could use a mouse. 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:22.770 align:middle line:90% She could use a joystick. 00:22:22.770 --> 00:22:26.050 align:middle line:84% And there's that communication device on the upper right. 00:22:26.050 --> 00:22:28.290 align:middle line:84% We had a very large screen for her, much larger 00:22:28.290 --> 00:22:29.168 align:middle line:90% than the other-- 00:22:29.168 --> 00:22:30.960 align:middle line:84% the other students really just had laptops. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.560 align:middle line:84% But we had a big screen connected to her laptop. 00:22:34.560 --> 00:22:36.660 align:middle line:90% And then she had a keyguard. 00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:39.142 align:middle line:84% A keyguard is a little thing you put over the keyboard 00:22:39.142 --> 00:22:41.100 align:middle line:84% so that when you hit a key, your finger doesn't 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:42.690 align:middle line:90% slide to another key. 00:22:42.690 --> 00:22:45.990 align:middle line:84% And this makes it much easier for her to type. 00:22:45.990 --> 00:22:48.370 align:middle line:84% And this was because of her cerebral palsy. 00:22:48.370 --> 00:22:49.980 align:middle line:84% So these were some of the things that 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:53.460 align:middle line:84% made the computer accessible for her. 00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.350 align:middle line:84% And some of it was actually so that she 00:22:55.350 --> 00:22:57.480 align:middle line:84% could communicate with other people who 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.610 align:middle line:90% didn't know sign language-- 00:22:59.610 --> 00:23:00.940 align:middle line:90% with the communication board. 00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:02.940 align:middle line:84% And the other things were things that she needed 00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:05.920 align:middle line:90% because of her disabilities. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.100 align:middle line:84% So this is kind of what we think about when 00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:09.600 align:middle line:90% we think about accessibility. 00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:17.630 align:middle line:84% They are devices that can help a person participate. 00:23:17.630 --> 00:23:21.010 align:middle line:84% So of course, we're addressing access to computers. 00:23:21.010 --> 00:23:24.320 align:middle line:90% And so what is there out there? 00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:26.960 align:middle line:84% The first thing is the screen reader, 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.020 align:middle line:84% which is something that takes what's on the screen 00:23:32.020 --> 00:23:34.238 align:middle line:90% and reads it out loud. 00:23:34.238 --> 00:23:36.280 align:middle line:84% And also, you're able to navigate with the screen 00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:39.940 align:middle line:84% to different parts of the screen and so on-- 00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:43.190 align:middle line:84% or multiple screens, like I have today. 00:23:43.190 --> 00:23:47.840 align:middle line:84% And the input is just a keyboard-- no mouse or touch. 00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.690 align:middle line:84% So that's what a screen reader does. 00:23:50.690 --> 00:23:52.280 align:middle line:84% So you could use-- excuse me, you 00:23:52.280 --> 00:23:55.340 align:middle line:84% could just keyboard or touch, either of those. 00:23:55.340 --> 00:23:57.590 align:middle line:90% But you wouldn't use a mouse. 00:23:57.590 --> 00:24:01.620 align:middle line:84% And the output would be speech or braille or both. 00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:04.220 align:middle line:84% So you can have that simultaneously. 00:24:04.220 --> 00:24:05.890 align:middle line:84% And I do know a few deaf-blind people 00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:07.780 align:middle line:90% who use, for example, iPhones. 00:24:07.780 --> 00:24:10.390 align:middle line:84% And they have a braille output device. 00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:13.180 align:middle line:84% And so they get everything in braille as opposed to speech. 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:16.030 align:middle line:84% Because they can't hear the speech. 00:24:16.030 --> 00:24:19.660 align:middle line:84% Another access to computer technology 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:21.820 align:middle line:90% is a switch, a binary switch. 00:24:21.820 --> 00:24:23.380 align:middle line:90% And there's a picture. 00:24:23.380 --> 00:24:24.880 align:middle line:84% Actually, the picture at the top was 00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:26.172 align:middle line:90% somebody using a screen reader. 00:24:26.172 --> 00:24:31.210 align:middle line:84% And you can see a braille device on the fingers there in front. 00:24:31.210 --> 00:24:32.840 align:middle line:84% And they're listening at the same time. 00:24:32.840 --> 00:24:36.370 align:middle line:84% So you have that multimodal output. 00:24:36.370 --> 00:24:38.300 align:middle line:84% For the switch, it's just a matter of input. 00:24:38.300 --> 00:24:43.030 align:middle line:84% This person can see and hear but can't perform anything 00:24:43.030 --> 00:24:44.260 align:middle line:90% except using a switch. 00:24:44.260 --> 00:24:50.560 align:middle line:84% A switch is a way to navigate and use the computer. 00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:53.050 align:middle line:84% And what happens there is that what's on the screen 00:24:53.050 --> 00:24:54.520 align:middle line:90% is scanned. 00:24:54.520 --> 00:24:57.950 align:middle line:84% And the thing that's currently scanned is highlighted. 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:01.720 align:middle line:84% And if you want to choose that, you flip the switch. 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:03.580 align:middle line:90% And that gets chosen. 00:25:03.580 --> 00:25:06.460 align:middle line:84% So you can imagine this would be very slow for doing typing. 00:25:06.460 --> 00:25:11.300 align:middle line:84% Because you need to scan the keyboard and stuff like that. 00:25:11.300 --> 00:25:14.710 align:middle line:84% But there are techniques like scan each row first. 00:25:14.710 --> 00:25:17.320 align:middle line:90% And then scan each-- 00:25:17.320 --> 00:25:18.310 align:middle line:90% scan the rows. 00:25:18.310 --> 00:25:21.640 align:middle line:84% And then within each row, scan the keys within the row. 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.520 align:middle line:84% And so it's a two-step process just 00:25:24.520 --> 00:25:27.070 align:middle line:90% to hit a key on a keyboard. 00:25:27.070 --> 00:25:31.060 align:middle line:84% And there are some resources to make that go faster. 00:25:31.060 --> 00:25:33.340 align:middle line:90% There's also speech input. 00:25:33.340 --> 00:25:34.630 align:middle line:90% So you could do speech input. 00:25:34.630 --> 00:25:36.300 align:middle line:84% And this is fairly common-- not just 00:25:36.300 --> 00:25:41.230 align:middle line:84% with certain groups that have mobility, 00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:44.200 align:middle line:84% but other groups as well that can't 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.480 align:middle line:90% type for intellectual reasons. 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.690 align:middle line:84% And then special devices-- mouse keys, joystick, head mouse, 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:53.880 align:middle line:90% and so on. 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.700 align:middle line:84% And there's hundreds of these different kinds 00:25:56.700 --> 00:26:00.060 align:middle line:90% of special devices. 00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:03.140 align:middle line:84% So these are the ways you access a computer if you 00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:06.910 align:middle line:90% have a severe disability. 00:26:06.910 --> 00:26:12.520 align:middle line:84% Now these things are pretty much available for free 00:26:12.520 --> 00:26:18.340 align:middle line:84% on Mac and iOS, on Android and Windows. 00:26:18.340 --> 00:26:22.570 align:middle line:84% So it's something that is available. 00:26:22.570 --> 00:26:24.480 align:middle line:84% These things have been built up over years, 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.500 align:middle line:84% this technology we've built up over years 00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.420 align:middle line:90% and is very available. 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:31.940 align:middle line:84% For Mac and iOS, there's the VoiceOver screen reader, 00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:33.340 align:middle line:90% which is just built in. 00:26:33.340 --> 00:26:36.970 align:middle line:84% If you have an iPhone, you can turn it on and try it yourself. 00:26:36.970 --> 00:26:39.610 align:middle line:84% They also have-- the newer versions of iOS 00:26:39.610 --> 00:26:43.000 align:middle line:84% have switch control and voice control built in. 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.830 align:middle line:90% And you can use those as well. 00:26:45.830 --> 00:26:47.960 align:middle line:84% And Android, there's a TalkBack screen reader, 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:49.480 align:middle line:90% which is built in. 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.060 align:middle line:84% Everybody has it on their Android device. 00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:54.250 align:middle line:84% In Windows, there's a narrator, a screen 00:26:54.250 --> 00:26:57.790 align:middle line:84% reader which is built into Windows 11 00:26:57.790 --> 00:26:59.620 align:middle line:90% and above, I believe. 00:26:59.620 --> 00:27:03.010 align:middle line:84% There's also third-party screen readers, JAWS and NVDA. 00:27:03.010 --> 00:27:04.660 align:middle line:90% NVDA is free. 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:06.740 align:middle line:84% What's cool about NVDA, by the way, 00:27:06.740 --> 00:27:10.930 align:middle line:84% is that the developers were two blind guys from Australia. 00:27:10.930 --> 00:27:15.910 align:middle line:84% And so NVDA is born accessible by blind people. 00:27:15.910 --> 00:27:18.760 align:middle line:90% So that's awesome. 00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:21.940 align:middle line:84% So all these access tools are available. 00:27:21.940 --> 00:27:23.050 align:middle line:90% Some cost money. 00:27:23.050 --> 00:27:25.460 align:middle line:90% Some don't. 00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.820 align:middle line:90% And so this is all there. 00:27:27.820 --> 00:27:29.230 align:middle line:90% So what's missing? 00:27:29.230 --> 00:27:31.540 align:middle line:90% What's the problem? 00:27:31.540 --> 00:27:35.230 align:middle line:84% Well, computer applications and websites are not automatically 00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:36.640 align:middle line:90% accessible. 00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:40.000 align:middle line:84% Even though all these devices that allow for accessibility 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:46.420 align:middle line:84% exists, these websites and applications 00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:49.000 align:middle line:84% have to be designed to be accessible. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.170 align:middle line:84% And believe it or not, most software and websites are not 00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:57.190 align:middle line:84% accessible even though all these tools to make them accessible 00:27:57.190 --> 00:27:58.610 align:middle line:90% are available. 00:27:58.610 --> 00:28:00.490 align:middle line:84% And this is actually a key problem 00:28:00.490 --> 00:28:04.420 align:middle line:84% for universities and also other organizations 00:28:04.420 --> 00:28:06.250 align:middle line:84% that train people who do programming 00:28:06.250 --> 00:28:09.490 align:middle line:84% that they should learn about how to build accessible 00:28:09.490 --> 00:28:14.290 align:middle line:84% applications in the first place-- and websites. 00:28:14.290 --> 00:28:16.420 align:middle line:90% So this is kind of a shock. 00:28:16.420 --> 00:28:20.640 align:middle line:84% In fact, when I first started working in K through 12, most 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.340 align:middle line:84% recently with Stefik, both of us realized 00:28:23.340 --> 00:28:25.770 align:middle line:84% that there are so many tools out there that 00:28:25.770 --> 00:28:31.530 align:middle line:84% are for kids that are websites or applications, things 00:28:31.530 --> 00:28:34.170 align:middle line:84% like Scratch and so on that are just 00:28:34.170 --> 00:28:36.330 align:middle line:90% not accessible for blind kids. 00:28:36.330 --> 00:28:38.550 align:middle line:84% So blind kids are completely left out of K 00:28:38.550 --> 00:28:41.460 align:middle line:84% through 12 computer science education 00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:45.098 align:middle line:84% unless they've used the things that Stefik is developing 00:28:45.098 --> 00:28:46.140 align:middle line:90% like the Quorum language. 00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.760 align:middle line:90% 00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:52.810 align:middle line:84% So I also want to talk briefly about accessible pedagogy. 00:28:52.810 --> 00:28:55.510 align:middle line:84% So there is this universal design for learning. 00:28:55.510 --> 00:28:57.400 align:middle line:84% And everybody should learn about this. 00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:58.990 align:middle line:90% This is for every teacher. 00:28:58.990 --> 00:29:01.150 align:middle line:84% So it takes into account different ways 00:29:01.150 --> 00:29:04.390 align:middle line:84% of learning, alternate ways of conveying information and doing 00:29:04.390 --> 00:29:07.960 align:middle line:84% assessment, scaffolding and clarity. 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.860 align:middle line:84% That's kind of a hallmark of UDL. 00:29:11.860 --> 00:29:15.760 align:middle line:84% And then project-based learning is a very effective way 00:29:15.760 --> 00:29:20.720 align:middle line:84% to take into account different ways of learning. 00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:24.860 align:middle line:84% Also, there are basic things like captioned videos 00:29:24.860 --> 00:29:27.840 align:middle line:90% and audio description. 00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:31.070 align:middle line:84% So captioned videos, video transcripts, and audio 00:29:31.070 --> 00:29:34.280 align:middle line:84% described videos are things that should be standard. 00:29:34.280 --> 00:29:35.450 align:middle line:90% But they're not. 00:29:35.450 --> 00:29:38.010 align:middle line:90% 00:29:38.010 --> 00:29:40.350 align:middle line:84% So I want to briefly talk about the Quorum language. 00:29:40.350 --> 00:29:42.150 align:middle line:90% And I'm glad Stefik is here. 00:29:42.150 --> 00:29:43.650 align:middle line:84% So he can answer questions later. 00:29:43.650 --> 00:29:46.530 align:middle line:84% Because I don't claim to be an expert on this. 00:29:46.530 --> 00:29:48.640 align:middle line:84% But I do want to give an example. 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.110 align:middle line:84% So this is something that was born accessible from the first, 00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:53.190 align:middle line:90% from the get-go. 00:29:53.190 --> 00:29:56.400 align:middle line:84% It's kind of the reason I got, if you like, 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:01.300 align:middle line:84% fell in love with Stefik and became his partner in crime. 00:30:01.300 --> 00:30:04.860 align:middle line:84% So here's a motivation for Quorum. 00:30:04.860 --> 00:30:07.480 align:middle line:90% On the left is some Java code. 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.600 align:middle line:84% And on the right is some Quorum code that's equivalent. 00:30:10.600 --> 00:30:13.540 align:middle line:84% So on the left, imagine yourself, 00:30:13.540 --> 00:30:18.230 align:middle line:84% put yourself in the classroom where Java is taught. 00:30:18.230 --> 00:30:21.830 align:middle line:84% And this is-- you're trying to do a very simple program, which 00:30:21.830 --> 00:30:25.363 align:middle line:90% is add up the first 100 numbers. 00:30:25.363 --> 00:30:26.405 align:middle line:90% And see what that equals. 00:30:26.405 --> 00:30:29.802 align:middle line:90% 00:30:29.802 --> 00:30:32.000 align:middle line:90% So on the left is-- 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.020 align:middle line:90% I hate to say it. 00:30:33.020 --> 00:30:36.665 align:middle line:84% If I hadn't seen it, it looks like gibberish. 00:30:36.665 --> 00:30:39.140 align:middle line:90% It's not. 00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.930 align:middle line:84% You have to learn Java deeply, even 00:30:41.930 --> 00:30:44.000 align:middle line:84% to get by in this very simple program. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.610 align:middle line:84% On the right is something much more intuitive, 00:30:46.610 --> 00:30:48.800 align:middle line:90% which is the Quorum program. 00:30:48.800 --> 00:30:53.240 align:middle line:84% And you'll notice there are no semicolons, no curly braces, 00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:55.640 align:middle line:90% no weirdness in there. 00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:58.520 align:middle line:84% So your sum is going to be your total. 00:30:58.520 --> 00:31:01.520 align:middle line:84% You're going to repeat something 100 times. 00:31:01.520 --> 00:31:04.670 align:middle line:84% And you're just going to add that thing into your sum. 00:31:04.670 --> 00:31:06.800 align:middle line:90% And then you output a sum. 00:31:06.800 --> 00:31:11.840 align:middle line:84% Well, in Java, you have to system.out.println, left paren, 00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:12.660 align:middle line:90% and right paren. 00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:13.160 align:middle line:90% I know. 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:15.320 align:middle line:90% It's too much. 00:31:15.320 --> 00:31:17.930 align:middle line:84% So my apologies to the Java adventurers. 00:31:17.930 --> 00:31:20.820 align:middle line:90% But it is kind of arcane. 00:31:20.820 --> 00:31:23.190 align:middle line:90% So I think this is what-- 00:31:23.190 --> 00:31:25.470 align:middle line:84% I think the beauty of what Stefik did 00:31:25.470 --> 00:31:29.280 align:middle line:84% is, this Quorum thing also is readable by a screen reader. 00:31:29.280 --> 00:31:32.670 align:middle line:84% So it's something that is pretty nicely read by a screen reader. 00:31:32.670 --> 00:31:36.720 align:middle line:84% It doesn't have strange characters in it. 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:41.060 align:middle line:84% So Quorum has a bunch of features born accessible. 00:31:41.060 --> 00:31:42.280 align:middle line:90% And I mentioned that earlier. 00:31:42.280 --> 00:31:43.320 align:middle line:90% It's evidence-based. 00:31:43.320 --> 00:31:44.370 align:middle line:90% I did not mention that. 00:31:44.370 --> 00:31:48.690 align:middle line:84% But Stefik and his team do extensive tests 00:31:48.690 --> 00:31:50.280 align:middle line:84% to see what works and what doesn't 00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:54.120 align:middle line:90% work with real human beings. 00:31:54.120 --> 00:31:55.110 align:middle line:90% It's object-based. 00:31:55.110 --> 00:31:58.440 align:middle line:84% It's a modern programming language. 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:04.780 align:middle line:84% It has support for web, PC, and Apple, all of them. 00:32:04.780 --> 00:32:07.560 align:middle line:90% It can run on all those devices. 00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:12.570 align:middle line:84% It has a professional IDE, Quorum Studio. 00:32:12.570 --> 00:32:15.010 align:middle line:84% It has speech as a first-class output. 00:32:15.010 --> 00:32:18.570 align:middle line:84% So instead of having output a number, 00:32:18.570 --> 00:32:21.750 align:middle line:84% you can have it say that number out loud-- 00:32:21.750 --> 00:32:27.630 align:middle line:84% no weird symbols, no dependence on indentation, either. 00:32:27.630 --> 00:32:29.940 align:middle line:84% So that's like-- Python has indentation. 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:30.960 align:middle line:90% And that's kind of hard. 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:33.420 align:middle line:84% That's a bit of a struggle with screen readers. 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.240 align:middle line:84% And there's plenty of curricula on the website-- 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.480 align:middle line:84% tutorials, AP computer science principles, games, audio, 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:43.000 align:middle line:84% data science, all sorts of good stuff, tons of libraries. 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.260 align:middle line:84% It's a real professional thing that 00:32:46.260 --> 00:32:49.800 align:middle line:84% can be used by younger students in K through 12. 00:32:49.800 --> 00:32:52.310 align:middle line:90% 00:32:52.310 --> 00:32:53.440 align:middle line:90% So what can you do? 00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:56.775 align:middle line:90% 00:32:56.775 --> 00:32:58.400 align:middle line:84% Well, I think many of you are teachers. 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:01.190 align:middle line:84% Some of you are teacher trainers. 00:33:01.190 --> 00:33:05.030 align:middle line:84% I don't know everybody's background on this webinar. 00:33:05.030 --> 00:33:08.990 align:middle line:84% But you can promote adoption of accessible curricula tools 00:33:08.990 --> 00:33:09.800 align:middle line:90% and pedagogy. 00:33:09.800 --> 00:33:11.900 align:middle line:84% That's basically what you can do. 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:14.870 align:middle line:90% So you can look to Quorum. 00:33:14.870 --> 00:33:16.610 align:middle line:84% You could look to Swift Playgrounds, 00:33:16.610 --> 00:33:20.570 align:middle line:84% which comes out of Apple, which is born accessible as well. 00:33:20.570 --> 00:33:22.970 align:middle line:84% There's Blocks4All, which is the program I worked on. 00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:24.410 align:middle line:84% The picture's in the upper right. 00:33:24.410 --> 00:33:26.240 align:middle line:90% That's sort of the blocks. 00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.165 align:middle line:84% That works for blind kids as well as everybody else. 00:33:29.165 --> 00:33:31.820 align:middle line:90% 00:33:31.820 --> 00:33:33.560 align:middle line:90% There's the UDL practices. 00:33:33.560 --> 00:33:35.180 align:middle line:84% And there are different websites you 00:33:35.180 --> 00:33:38.510 align:middle line:84% can go to to learn about that and some training. 00:33:38.510 --> 00:33:42.320 align:middle line:84% Maya Israel is really a fantastic advocate for that 00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:46.145 align:middle line:84% and has done lots of trainings for computer science. 00:33:46.145 --> 00:33:48.940 align:middle line:90% 00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:51.090 align:middle line:84% So one other thing I wanted to mention 00:33:51.090 --> 00:33:53.850 align:middle line:90% is that data collection. 00:33:53.850 --> 00:33:55.320 align:middle line:84% I mentioned earlier the data that 00:33:55.320 --> 00:34:00.240 align:middle line:84% was collected by actuallycode.org 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.970 align:middle line:84% for that report, the annual report they 00:34:02.970 --> 00:34:06.030 align:middle line:84% have for the state of computer science education. 00:34:06.030 --> 00:34:10.980 align:middle line:84% But also, in some states, maybe 22 states 00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:13.889 align:middle line:90% will have disability data. 00:34:13.889 --> 00:34:17.400 align:middle line:90% And this is a chart from-- 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:23.159 align:middle line:84% I think it's CS for CA, California. 00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:24.830 align:middle line:90% And this is their chart. 00:34:24.830 --> 00:34:28.116 align:middle line:84% So they have, for this chart, they have gender. 00:34:28.116 --> 00:34:29.580 align:middle line:90% They have race and ethnicity. 00:34:29.580 --> 00:34:31.310 align:middle line:90% And that's it. 00:34:31.310 --> 00:34:33.010 align:middle line:90% So you want to move beyond this. 00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:35.980 align:middle line:84% And I've actually talked to them a couple of months ago 00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:38.320 align:middle line:84% and encouraged them to gather data 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.440 align:middle line:84% or to find the data so you don't have to gather the data. 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:46.570 align:middle line:84% It's institutional data on IDEA and Section 504 students. 00:34:46.570 --> 00:34:50.770 align:middle line:84% So they can add that to this chart. 00:34:50.770 --> 00:34:53.050 align:middle line:84% There's also, I think, important other groups 00:34:53.050 --> 00:34:57.070 align:middle line:84% like English language learners and those students 00:34:57.070 --> 00:34:58.300 align:middle line:90% on free and reduced lunch. 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.990 align:middle line:84% And we need to know how they're doing in computer science 00:35:01.990 --> 00:35:02.690 align:middle line:90% as well. 00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:04.550 align:middle line:84% So I don't want to say just disability. 00:35:04.550 --> 00:35:06.790 align:middle line:84% But I think there are other groups or other ways 00:35:06.790 --> 00:35:13.310 align:middle line:84% to think about disadvantage that should be considered, 00:35:13.310 --> 00:35:16.287 align:middle line:84% so encouraging people to do that. 00:35:16.287 --> 00:35:17.870 align:middle line:84% And then finally at the end, I'm going 00:35:17.870 --> 00:35:20.220 align:middle line:84% to talk briefly about AccessCSforAll, 00:35:20.220 --> 00:35:22.685 align:middle line:84% which is this project that Stefik and I are leading. 00:35:22.685 --> 00:35:25.720 align:middle line:90% 00:35:25.720 --> 00:35:27.880 align:middle line:84% So it was founded, actually, in 2014. 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:29.380 align:middle line:90% And we're in the third-- 00:35:29.380 --> 00:35:32.320 align:middle line:90% we're on our third grant. 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:36.280 align:middle line:84% And it's a joint project between University of Nevada Las Vegas 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.020 align:middle line:90% and University of Washington. 00:35:38.020 --> 00:35:40.990 align:middle line:90% And it's a collaboration. 00:35:40.990 --> 00:35:44.920 align:middle line:84% And so there's two PIs and our co-PI, 00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:47.080 align:middle line:84% director Sheryl Burgstahler at the DO-IT Center 00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:48.640 align:middle line:84% here at the University of Washington. 00:35:48.640 --> 00:35:51.200 align:middle line:90% 00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:53.710 align:middle line:84% So the goal is to increase the participation of students 00:35:53.710 --> 00:35:56.680 align:middle line:84% with disabilities in K through 12 computer science. 00:35:56.680 --> 00:35:58.360 align:middle line:84% And these are some students we've 00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:02.140 align:middle line:84% worked with over the years here, all high school students. 00:36:02.140 --> 00:36:04.820 align:middle line:90% 00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:07.550 align:middle line:84% So our strategy is, we have a number of strategies. 00:36:07.550 --> 00:36:09.520 align:middle line:84% One is to build curriculum tools. 00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:11.020 align:middle line:84% And that's mostly done at University 00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:12.580 align:middle line:90% of Nevada Las Vegas-- 00:36:12.580 --> 00:36:16.450 align:middle line:84% a tiny bit here at the University of Washington. 00:36:16.450 --> 00:36:19.180 align:middle line:84% And so I mentioned earlier Quorum Studio, Accessible 00:36:19.180 --> 00:36:21.370 align:middle line:90% Computer Science Principles-- 00:36:21.370 --> 00:36:25.690 align:middle line:84% we have a group of development partners, maybe 15 of them, 00:36:25.690 --> 00:36:30.700 align:middle line:84% who are really enthused about making their computer science 00:36:30.700 --> 00:36:32.500 align:middle line:90% tools accessible. 00:36:32.500 --> 00:36:35.560 align:middle line:90% And then in the new grant is-- 00:36:35.560 --> 00:36:37.390 align:middle line:84% maybe somebody will ask Stefik about how 00:36:37.390 --> 00:36:39.070 align:middle line:90% Quorum Blocks is coming along. 00:36:39.070 --> 00:36:42.070 align:middle line:84% Because we want to do a version of blocks 00:36:42.070 --> 00:36:47.020 align:middle line:84% that is fully accessible and can run on many devices. 00:36:47.020 --> 00:36:50.350 align:middle line:84% Blocks4All only runs on the iPad. 00:36:50.350 --> 00:36:51.910 align:middle line:90% We're also a national resource. 00:36:51.910 --> 00:36:53.390 align:middle line:90% We have a knowledge base. 00:36:53.390 --> 00:36:55.510 align:middle line:90% We have webinars like this one. 00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:58.330 align:middle line:84% We have a series of four webinars, Accessible Computer 00:36:58.330 --> 00:37:00.400 align:middle line:84% Science Teacher to Teacher, where 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.690 align:middle line:84% we brought in four teachers from specialized schools who 00:37:04.690 --> 00:37:06.080 align:middle line:90% really know what they're doing. 00:37:06.080 --> 00:37:09.220 align:middle line:84% And I really highly recommend that you look at these videos. 00:37:09.220 --> 00:37:12.970 align:middle line:84% These were sponsored by Infosys Foundation of the US. 00:37:12.970 --> 00:37:15.700 align:middle line:90% 00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:17.350 align:middle line:84% So we already have some resources 00:37:17.350 --> 00:37:21.700 align:middle line:84% in the videos, the capture of those webinars. 00:37:21.700 --> 00:37:23.560 align:middle line:84% We also do individual consultations. 00:37:23.560 --> 00:37:25.270 align:middle line:90% We've done quite a bit of those. 00:37:25.270 --> 00:37:27.700 align:middle line:90% And we have a hotline. 00:37:27.700 --> 00:37:29.380 align:middle line:84% And the hotline really is intended 00:37:29.380 --> 00:37:32.800 align:middle line:84% for teachers who have a particular issue that they're 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:33.640 align:middle line:90% having trouble with. 00:37:33.640 --> 00:37:35.780 align:middle line:90% And they don't know what to do. 00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:38.530 align:middle line:84% And it's with a student with a disability. 00:37:38.530 --> 00:37:39.820 align:middle line:90% They're kind of stuck. 00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:41.140 align:middle line:90% And they need help. 00:37:41.140 --> 00:37:43.930 align:middle line:84% And either we can help them or we can direct them 00:37:43.930 --> 00:37:45.800 align:middle line:90% to somebody who can help them. 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:47.680 align:middle line:84% And we do that quite a few times every year. 00:37:47.680 --> 00:37:50.370 align:middle line:90% 00:37:50.370 --> 00:37:52.770 align:middle line:84% We also have some other strategies, 00:37:52.770 --> 00:37:54.630 align:middle line:84% professional development for teachers. 00:37:54.630 --> 00:37:57.273 align:middle line:84% We, in the past, have worked with teachers 00:37:57.273 --> 00:37:59.190 align:middle line:84% of blind and visually impaired, in the picture 00:37:59.190 --> 00:38:01.020 align:middle line:84% on the upper right of a workshop we 00:38:01.020 --> 00:38:04.980 align:middle line:84% had at the University of Texas, teachers of deaf 00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:05.820 align:middle line:90% and hard of hearing. 00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:07.800 align:middle line:84% And there's another picture on the right 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:09.960 align:middle line:84% that we did at Gallaudet University. 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.050 align:middle line:84% We had a workshop there for those teachers, computer 00:38:13.050 --> 00:38:14.070 align:middle line:90% science teachers. 00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:17.400 align:middle line:84% By the way, about eight of those computer science teachers 00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:18.630 align:middle line:90% were deaf themselves. 00:38:18.630 --> 00:38:22.980 align:middle line:84% And that whole workshop was done in sign language. 00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:27.630 align:middle line:84% And also, the neurodiverse students-- 00:38:27.630 --> 00:38:29.380 align:middle line:84% and we had to do that during the pandemic. 00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:32.520 align:middle line:90% So I don't have a picture. 00:38:32.520 --> 00:38:35.760 align:middle line:84% And new this time, as we're working more closely with 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.540 align:middle line:84% pre-service and in-service programs and trying to get them 00:38:39.540 --> 00:38:42.150 align:middle line:90% to adopt-- 00:38:42.150 --> 00:38:44.400 align:middle line:84% include information about serving students 00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:46.800 align:middle line:84% with disabilities in their professional development 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.340 align:middle line:90% that they're doing. 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:51.720 align:middle line:84% And so we're just still in the first year of this project. 00:38:51.720 --> 00:38:57.480 align:middle line:90% 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.180 align:middle line:84% We also-- it's a research practitioner partnership. 00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:03.570 align:middle line:84% And we have a whole bunch of partners that we work with, 00:39:03.570 --> 00:39:05.790 align:middle line:90% in-service programs. 00:39:05.790 --> 00:39:09.660 align:middle line:84% Some of the major ones like code.org, WeTeach, Mobile CSP, 00:39:09.660 --> 00:39:11.130 align:middle line:90% CS Matters. 00:39:11.130 --> 00:39:17.430 align:middle line:84% And we teach pre-service programs at three universities, 00:39:17.430 --> 00:39:20.580 align:middle line:84% organizations like the College Board, ECEP-- 00:39:20.580 --> 00:39:23.100 align:middle line:84% Expanding Computers Education Pathways. 00:39:23.100 --> 00:39:24.960 align:middle line:84% And then we also worked with the schools 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:28.320 align:middle line:84% that we developed partnerships with over the last few years-- 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.810 align:middle line:84% schools for the blind, schools for the deaf, 00:39:30.810 --> 00:39:35.500 align:middle line:84% and schools for learning disabled students. 00:39:35.500 --> 00:39:36.700 align:middle line:90% And here's some resources. 00:39:36.700 --> 00:39:40.070 align:middle line:84% And I guess, Brianna, these slides will be available. 00:39:40.070 --> 00:39:42.355 align:middle line:84% And so people can click on these links. 00:39:42.355 --> 00:39:44.578 align:middle line:90% 00:39:44.578 --> 00:39:46.870 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Yeah, we can make the slides available. 00:39:46.870 --> 00:39:47.800 align:middle line:90% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, and-- 00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:48.980 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I'll email them afterwards. 00:39:48.980 --> 00:39:50.560 align:middle line:84% And I can drop the link in the chat. 00:39:50.560 --> 00:39:52.227 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: And some of these things 00:39:52.227 --> 00:39:54.400 align:middle line:90% are for the accessible tools. 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:59.860 align:middle line:84% And some of them are for accessible pedagogy. 00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:03.790 align:middle line:90% So the last three there-- 00:40:03.790 --> 00:40:06.700 align:middle line:84% excuse me, Creative Technology Research Lab 00:40:06.700 --> 00:40:09.160 align:middle line:84% is run out of the University of Florida with Maya Israel. 00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:12.250 align:middle line:84% And she's done a terrific job of making sure 00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:16.690 align:middle line:84% that UDL is out there and people know about it. 00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:21.700 align:middle line:84% So I think I'm going to end now with just some questions. 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:24.840 align:middle line:84% And these are things to think about. 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.520 align:middle line:84% If you've had a student with a disability in your computing 00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:31.390 align:middle line:90% class, how did you deal with it? 00:40:31.390 --> 00:40:34.310 align:middle line:84% And this is pretty likely, actually. 00:40:34.310 --> 00:40:35.370 align:middle line:90% Maybe it was easy. 00:40:35.370 --> 00:40:37.160 align:middle line:90% Maybe it was hard. 00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:39.860 align:middle line:90% Do you want to-- 00:40:39.860 --> 00:40:42.440 align:middle line:84% suppose you want to do a pair program exercise. 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.635 align:middle line:84% But the student in your class would rather work alone. 00:40:45.635 --> 00:40:46.760 align:middle line:90% And the student's autistic. 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:47.960 align:middle line:90% What would you do? 00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:49.790 align:middle line:90% What would you do in that case? 00:40:49.790 --> 00:40:54.320 align:middle line:84% Some students really don't want to work with other people. 00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:56.950 align:middle line:84% You have a blind student in your computing course 00:40:56.950 --> 00:41:00.640 align:middle line:84% that uses Scratch as a first taste of programming. 00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:03.100 align:middle line:84% Unfortunately, Scratch is not screen reader-accessible. 00:41:03.100 --> 00:41:04.888 align:middle line:90% What would you do? 00:41:04.888 --> 00:41:06.430 align:middle line:84% You have a deaf student in your class 00:41:06.430 --> 00:41:09.335 align:middle line:84% who relies on sign language interpretation. 00:41:09.335 --> 00:41:11.710 align:middle line:84% How would you deal with that student and the interpreter? 00:41:11.710 --> 00:41:13.720 align:middle line:90% What would be the interaction? 00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:16.330 align:middle line:90% How would that work? 00:41:16.330 --> 00:41:19.200 align:middle line:90% So I think that's all. 00:41:19.200 --> 00:41:23.850 align:middle line:84% And I think Stefik is here with me. 00:41:23.850 --> 00:41:27.030 align:middle line:84% And we're open to answering questions. 00:41:27.030 --> 00:41:30.275 align:middle line:84% And maybe there are some already in the chat. 00:41:30.275 --> 00:41:32.400 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Somebody asked about the recording. 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:33.930 align:middle line:84% So I will be sharing the recording 00:41:33.930 --> 00:41:38.160 align:middle line:84% with everybody who is registered once it's available online. 00:41:38.160 --> 00:41:40.080 align:middle line:84% And just a reminder, you can raise your hand 00:41:40.080 --> 00:41:41.330 align:middle line:90% if you want to ask a question. 00:41:41.330 --> 00:41:43.440 align:middle line:84% Or drop your questions in the chat. 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:54.664 align:middle line:90% 00:41:54.664 --> 00:41:57.293 align:middle line:84% You know, one question I have, Richard, is, 00:41:57.293 --> 00:41:59.210 align:middle line:84% you mentioned that a lot of these technologies 00:41:59.210 --> 00:42:02.150 align:middle line:84% and a lot of websites aren't accessible. 00:42:02.150 --> 00:42:02.680 align:middle line:90% Why not? 00:42:02.680 --> 00:42:06.423 align:middle line:84% Why don't people just make them accessible? 00:42:06.423 --> 00:42:08.840 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, I think that's a complicated answer. 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:10.810 align:middle line:84% And I'm going to stop sharing now. 00:42:10.810 --> 00:42:13.660 align:middle line:84% So we don't need to see this anymore. 00:42:13.660 --> 00:42:17.140 align:middle line:90% I can see a lot of faces now. 00:42:17.140 --> 00:42:18.830 align:middle line:84% I think there's a couple of reasons. 00:42:18.830 --> 00:42:22.450 align:middle line:84% One is that it does require some expertise, 00:42:22.450 --> 00:42:24.580 align:middle line:84% that making something accessible is not something 00:42:24.580 --> 00:42:26.710 align:middle line:84% that people are learning now in college 00:42:26.710 --> 00:42:31.720 align:middle line:84% that much in their programs or in bootcamps. 00:42:31.720 --> 00:42:35.040 align:middle line:84% And so it just needs to get out there. 00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:37.020 align:middle line:84% Now if you really were determined 00:42:37.020 --> 00:42:39.600 align:middle line:84% that you wanted to make your application accessible, 00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:41.460 align:middle line:84% you have to think about the design. 00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:44.200 align:middle line:84% It's not just a programming issue. 00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:46.230 align:middle line:90% It's also a design issue. 00:42:46.230 --> 00:42:49.500 align:middle line:84% And so it's something you'll have to think about early on. 00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:51.962 align:middle line:84% It's not something you can add on later easily, 00:42:51.962 --> 00:42:53.420 align:middle line:84% as the Scratch people are learning. 00:42:53.420 --> 00:42:55.220 align:middle line:84% Because we've been talking to them recently 00:42:55.220 --> 00:42:59.035 align:middle line:84% about their efforts to make Scratch accessible. 00:42:59.035 --> 00:43:01.160 align:middle line:84% And I think they're going to have to re-engineer it 00:43:01.160 --> 00:43:04.620 align:middle line:90% from the very beginning. 00:43:04.620 --> 00:43:10.520 align:middle line:84% So that's one issue is that it's technical. 00:43:10.520 --> 00:43:13.560 align:middle line:84% The second issue is that, like I said, it's not being taught. 00:43:13.560 --> 00:43:16.490 align:middle line:84% And so we would like to change that as well to make sure 00:43:16.490 --> 00:43:18.350 align:middle line:84% it is taught at colleges and universities. 00:43:18.350 --> 00:43:20.230 align:middle line:84% And our other project, AccessComputing, 00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:23.720 align:middle line:84% is working on that along with this wonderful organization 00:43:23.720 --> 00:43:26.520 align:middle line:90% called Teach Access. 00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:28.890 align:middle line:90% It's teachaccess.org. 00:43:28.890 --> 00:43:33.420 align:middle line:84% And so they're really determined to make sure that it 00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:35.730 align:middle line:90% gets put into the curriculum. 00:43:35.730 --> 00:43:37.980 align:middle line:84% And we've been interacting a little bit 00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:43.920 align:middle line:84% with the ABET, the accreditation board for computer science. 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.790 align:middle line:84% And they're at least proposing, the leaders of that, 00:43:47.790 --> 00:43:52.890 align:middle line:84% or at least proposing to ABET that accessibility 00:43:52.890 --> 00:43:57.090 align:middle line:84% be part of the curriculum and that it be emphasized 00:43:57.090 --> 00:43:57.840 align:middle line:90% in the curriculum. 00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.990 align:middle line:84% So hopefully, there'll be changes in the next few years. 00:44:00.990 --> 00:44:05.155 align:middle line:84% And also, the ACM guidelines, curricular guidelines-- 00:44:05.155 --> 00:44:06.780 align:middle line:84% they're not guidelines, though, either. 00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.050 align:middle line:84% They're recommendations, I think they're called-- 00:44:10.050 --> 00:44:12.015 align:middle line:84% they're also going to include accessibility 00:44:12.015 --> 00:44:12.973 align:middle line:90% in the recommendations. 00:44:12.973 --> 00:44:17.687 align:middle line:84% So it's a process that takes a number of years. 00:44:17.687 --> 00:44:19.020 align:middle line:90% Stefik, you want to add to that? 00:44:19.020 --> 00:44:21.682 align:middle line:90% 00:44:21.682 --> 00:44:23.140 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: No, that was great. 00:44:23.140 --> 00:44:25.713 align:middle line:84% That covered it, I think, really carefully. 00:44:25.713 --> 00:44:27.130 align:middle line:84% It's not-- you can't flip a switch 00:44:27.130 --> 00:44:28.717 align:middle line:84% and turn accessibility on and off. 00:44:28.717 --> 00:44:29.800 align:middle line:90% It takes some engineering. 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:30.910 align:middle line:90% It's not taught in schools. 00:44:30.910 --> 00:44:32.327 align:middle line:84% So people don't know how to do it. 00:44:32.327 --> 00:44:33.640 align:middle line:90% Those are the really big ones. 00:44:33.640 --> 00:44:34.630 align:middle line:90% I like what you said. 00:44:34.630 --> 00:44:36.102 align:middle line:90% That's it. 00:44:36.102 --> 00:44:37.060 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Thanks. 00:44:37.060 --> 00:44:39.050 align:middle line:84% There's a few questions in the chat. 00:44:39.050 --> 00:44:41.350 align:middle line:84% "Can you suggest ways to support students 00:44:41.350 --> 00:44:42.820 align:middle line:90% with emotional disabilities?" 00:44:42.820 --> 00:44:51.320 align:middle line:90% 00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:54.850 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Of course, emotional disabilities can-- 00:44:54.850 --> 00:44:57.910 align:middle line:90% so it's a wide spectrum here. 00:44:57.910 --> 00:45:00.650 align:middle line:90% It could be depression. 00:45:00.650 --> 00:45:04.000 align:middle line:90% It could be anxiety. 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.780 align:middle line:84% I'd say anxiety is not necessarily a disability. 00:45:07.780 --> 00:45:12.040 align:middle line:90% But severe anxiety is. 00:45:12.040 --> 00:45:16.040 align:middle line:84% It could be mental illness, lots of things like that. 00:45:16.040 --> 00:45:19.010 align:middle line:84% So I don't think there's a simple answer to that. 00:45:19.010 --> 00:45:21.160 align:middle line:84% But I think one thing that you can always 00:45:21.160 --> 00:45:22.990 align:middle line:84% do if a student is having trouble, 00:45:22.990 --> 00:45:25.480 align:middle line:84% you can ask if there's anything that they 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:27.310 align:middle line:90% would like to tell you. 00:45:27.310 --> 00:45:30.580 align:middle line:84% Is there something going on that is preventing them 00:45:30.580 --> 00:45:32.470 align:middle line:90% from working? 00:45:32.470 --> 00:45:36.640 align:middle line:84% And that student might already have an IEP. 00:45:36.640 --> 00:45:40.090 align:middle line:84% They might already be identified as having 00:45:40.090 --> 00:45:43.240 align:middle line:84% an emotional-related disability-- in which case, 00:45:43.240 --> 00:45:47.200 align:middle line:84% you definitely should work to make sure 00:45:47.200 --> 00:45:52.080 align:middle line:84% that you work on the individualized education 00:45:52.080 --> 00:45:55.297 align:middle line:84% program so that student can be participating 00:45:55.297 --> 00:45:56.130 align:middle line:90% in computer science. 00:45:56.130 --> 00:45:59.400 align:middle line:84% So work with the special ed people 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:03.150 align:middle line:84% to make sure that student isn't excluded from computer science. 00:46:03.150 --> 00:46:05.460 align:middle line:84% I don't know if I answered that as well as I could. 00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:08.910 align:middle line:84% But those are some things I thought about. 00:46:08.910 --> 00:46:11.678 align:middle line:90% 00:46:11.678 --> 00:46:14.220 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Kat asked in the chat, "What guidelines would 00:46:14.220 --> 00:46:16.500 align:middle line:84% you recommend for making accessible websites 00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:17.520 align:middle line:90% or programs?" 00:46:17.520 --> 00:46:20.730 align:middle line:90% 00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:25.590 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Well, the main one is WCAG 2.1, 00:46:25.590 --> 00:46:27.190 align:middle line:90% I think it is now. 00:46:27.190 --> 00:46:28.920 align:middle line:90% So that's the web-- 00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.050 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: 2.1 AA is the target. 00:46:31.050 --> 00:46:33.300 align:middle line:90% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, AA. 00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:36.160 align:middle line:90% You don't want to do AAA. 00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:36.660 align:middle line:90% That's-- 00:46:36.660 --> 00:46:37.740 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: No, not AAA. 00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:39.407 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: That's too aspirational. 00:46:39.407 --> 00:46:40.790 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: AAA is too much. 00:46:40.790 --> 00:46:42.207 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, that's too-- 00:46:42.207 --> 00:46:43.200 align:middle line:90% it's very aspirational. 00:46:43.200 --> 00:46:46.920 align:middle line:84% And AA is what you should be guided. 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:49.980 align:middle line:84% One thing when you're thinking about procurement, 00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.710 align:middle line:84% there's something called a voluntary-- what's a VPAT? 00:46:52.710 --> 00:46:55.080 align:middle line:90% What does that stuff stand for? 00:46:55.080 --> 00:46:56.828 align:middle line:90% Voluntary something-- 00:46:56.828 --> 00:46:57.870 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: Oh, geez. 00:46:57.870 --> 00:46:58.860 align:middle line:90% I don't remember the acronym. 00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.450 align:middle line:84% But the big picture is basically, 00:47:00.450 --> 00:47:03.930 align:middle line:84% it's a declaration by a group or a company or an individual 00:47:03.930 --> 00:47:05.970 align:middle line:84% on what is accessible and what isn't. 00:47:05.970 --> 00:47:09.090 align:middle line:84% Now keep in mind a VPAT does not guarantee that what's 00:47:09.090 --> 00:47:10.800 align:middle line:90% in the VPAT is actually true. 00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:14.610 align:middle line:84% But it's at least often a good faith declaration like, hey, 00:47:14.610 --> 00:47:15.810 align:middle line:90% we support this thing. 00:47:15.810 --> 00:47:17.297 align:middle line:90% And we don't support that thing. 00:47:17.297 --> 00:47:19.380 align:middle line:84% But you have to be a little bit careful with them. 00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:22.620 align:middle line:84% Because sometimes companies don't necessarily outright lie. 00:47:22.620 --> 00:47:24.570 align:middle line:84% But if it's written by a lawyer, there 00:47:24.570 --> 00:47:26.140 align:middle line:84% might be some weasel words in there. 00:47:26.140 --> 00:47:27.690 align:middle line:84% So you have to be just a smidge careful. 00:47:27.690 --> 00:47:28.170 align:middle line:90% So-- 00:47:28.170 --> 00:47:29.587 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, I think it's 00:47:29.587 --> 00:47:32.850 align:middle line:84% like a voluntary accessibility declaration or something. 00:47:32.850 --> 00:47:34.770 align:middle line:84% I don't know what the T is exactly. 00:47:34.770 --> 00:47:36.437 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Template, I think it is. 00:47:36.437 --> 00:47:39.390 align:middle line:84% I'll put a link we have in the chat momentarily 00:47:39.390 --> 00:47:42.210 align:middle line:84% for evaluating that talks about evaluating 00:47:42.210 --> 00:47:43.770 align:middle line:90% third-party services. 00:47:43.770 --> 00:47:46.410 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: Voluntary Product Accessibility Template. 00:47:46.410 --> 00:47:49.740 align:middle line:90% I had to look it up, too. 00:47:49.740 --> 00:47:52.410 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: And so now if you're purchasing or getting 00:47:52.410 --> 00:47:56.640 align:middle line:84% a computer tool, you should definitely ask for the VPAT. 00:47:56.640 --> 00:47:58.500 align:middle line:90% And that'll at least-- 00:47:58.500 --> 00:48:00.450 align:middle line:84% like Stefik said, it's not always accurate. 00:48:00.450 --> 00:48:02.040 align:middle line:84% But at least it puts them on notice 00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:05.450 align:middle line:90% that you are interested in that. 00:48:05.450 --> 00:48:08.450 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: There's another, a related question in the chat 00:48:08.450 --> 00:48:14.060 align:middle line:84% about accessible e-textbooks, particularly for CS0 or CS1. 00:48:14.060 --> 00:48:17.480 align:middle line:84% And this person says, "We had issues with zyBooks 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:20.360 align:middle line:84% for a low-vision student, visually impaired student, 00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:21.140 align:middle line:90% last year." 00:48:21.140 --> 00:48:26.677 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Oh, that doesn't surprise me. 00:48:26.677 --> 00:48:28.010 align:middle line:90% I don't know much about zyBooks. 00:48:28.010 --> 00:48:30.970 align:middle line:90% I saw them at the CSTA-- 00:48:30.970 --> 00:48:35.840 align:middle line:84% no, on the floor there of the companies that had booths. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.310 align:middle line:84% But I didn't go over there and ask them about that. 00:48:38.310 --> 00:48:40.670 align:middle line:90% I wish I had. 00:48:40.670 --> 00:48:41.890 align:middle line:90% And everybody should ask. 00:48:41.890 --> 00:48:44.340 align:middle line:84% But you go up to one of these booths at the CSTA. 00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:46.550 align:middle line:90% Many of you went there, I think. 00:48:46.550 --> 00:48:49.010 align:middle line:84% Always ask, is your stuff accessible? 00:48:49.010 --> 00:48:51.090 align:middle line:84% What's your VPAT, things like that? 00:48:51.090 --> 00:48:56.255 align:middle line:84% And it sort of puts in their mind that there is a demand. 00:48:56.255 --> 00:48:58.630 align:middle line:84% So I guess that's another thing you can think about doing 00:48:58.630 --> 00:49:02.580 align:middle line:90% is being an advocate. 00:49:02.580 --> 00:49:04.140 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Somebody asked, "I 00:49:04.140 --> 00:49:06.948 align:middle line:84% work in an assistive technology center at a state university. 00:49:06.948 --> 00:49:09.240 align:middle line:84% Do you have recommendations about how to get CS faculty 00:49:09.240 --> 00:49:11.220 align:middle line:84% to buy into the value of including students 00:49:11.220 --> 00:49:12.581 align:middle line:90% with disabilities?" 00:49:12.581 --> 00:49:16.270 align:middle line:90% 00:49:16.270 --> 00:49:17.750 align:middle line:90% RICHARD LADNER: It's a process. 00:49:17.750 --> 00:49:21.453 align:middle line:90% It's not overnight. 00:49:21.453 --> 00:49:23.870 align:middle line:84% One thing that we did here at the University of Washington 00:49:23.870 --> 00:49:30.110 align:middle line:84% that the University of Washington 00:49:30.110 --> 00:49:32.210 align:middle line:84% computer science department put together 00:49:32.210 --> 00:49:38.520 align:middle line:84% a planning document, strategic plan or whatever. 00:49:38.520 --> 00:49:40.980 align:middle line:84% And in that strategic plan, they made 00:49:40.980 --> 00:49:44.660 align:middle line:90% sure they talked about DEI-- 00:49:44.660 --> 00:49:47.415 align:middle line:84% Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. 00:49:47.415 --> 00:49:49.290 align:middle line:84% And then I sort of mentioned, well, maybe you 00:49:49.290 --> 00:49:50.790 align:middle line:84% should have an A on the end of that. 00:49:50.790 --> 00:49:52.770 align:middle line:90% And so eventually they did. 00:49:52.770 --> 00:49:55.800 align:middle line:84% They added accessibility or access to the end. 00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.500 align:middle line:84% So they have a DEIA strategic plan. 00:50:00.500 --> 00:50:03.290 align:middle line:84% And so I think that's kind of a good starting point 00:50:03.290 --> 00:50:06.500 align:middle line:84% is, whenever there's a planning process for a department, 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:09.245 align:middle line:84% to make sure that accessibility is part of that, 00:50:09.245 --> 00:50:10.340 align:middle line:90% that that's brought up. 00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:14.600 align:middle line:84% And it does take being a pest, if you like, 00:50:14.600 --> 00:50:18.770 align:middle line:84% for a while to make sure that gets in there. 00:50:18.770 --> 00:50:21.208 align:middle line:90% 00:50:21.208 --> 00:50:22.750 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: One thing I might add 00:50:22.750 --> 00:50:25.270 align:middle line:84% is that a lot of professors, they 00:50:25.270 --> 00:50:27.250 align:middle line:84% don't have any training in accessibility. 00:50:27.250 --> 00:50:30.160 align:middle line:84% So sometimes, they don't even really know 00:50:30.160 --> 00:50:31.490 align:middle line:90% what they don't know. 00:50:31.490 --> 00:50:33.715 align:middle line:84% So sometimes, that advocacy over time 00:50:33.715 --> 00:50:34.840 align:middle line:90% actually works pretty well. 00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:38.318 align:middle line:84% Because they realize that there's all sorts of students. 00:50:38.318 --> 00:50:40.360 align:middle line:84% And they may have only had one in their classroom 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:41.620 align:middle line:90% or not realized it. 00:50:41.620 --> 00:50:48.580 align:middle line:84% So sometimes it's not as hard of a sell as I think it might be. 00:50:48.580 --> 00:50:50.440 align:middle line:84% Because a lot of professors just don't even 00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:53.020 align:middle line:84% know what the issues are, or how big it is, 00:50:53.020 --> 00:50:56.860 align:middle line:84% or how many people are involved, and stuff like that. 00:50:56.860 --> 00:50:58.960 align:middle line:84% So a lot of people are pretty receptive, I think, 00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:00.940 align:middle line:84% once they have been engaged a little bit. 00:51:00.940 --> 00:51:02.265 align:middle line:90% So it's engagement over time. 00:51:02.265 --> 00:51:05.542 align:middle line:90% 00:51:05.542 --> 00:51:07.000 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I want to come back 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.530 align:middle line:84% to this question about textbooks. 00:51:09.530 --> 00:51:12.670 align:middle line:84% Do either of textbooks that are accessible that you 00:51:12.670 --> 00:51:13.600 align:middle line:90% would recommend? 00:51:13.600 --> 00:51:15.880 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: You mean e-textbooks, Brianna? 00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:17.625 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Yeah, for CS0 or CS1. 00:51:17.625 --> 00:51:19.750 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: The honest answer is, I'm not sure. 00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:21.130 align:middle line:90% I read that question, too. 00:51:21.130 --> 00:51:25.120 align:middle line:84% And it might help to know, or it might be a follow-up thing, 00:51:25.120 --> 00:51:29.770 align:middle line:84% to know what kind of stuff they need out of those textbooks. 00:51:29.770 --> 00:51:33.100 align:middle line:84% And the reason is because different kinds of technologies 00:51:33.100 --> 00:51:36.370 align:middle line:84% that are used for CS0 or CS1 are only 00:51:36.370 --> 00:51:38.202 align:middle line:84% going to be as accessible as the technology 00:51:38.202 --> 00:51:39.910 align:middle line:84% that they're using to do the programming. 00:51:39.910 --> 00:51:44.470 align:middle line:84% So there's really no reason why the actual text 00:51:44.470 --> 00:51:46.630 align:middle line:84% for the textbook couldn't be accessible. 00:51:46.630 --> 00:51:48.767 align:middle line:84% But if it's built into Scratch, then there's 00:51:48.767 --> 00:51:51.100 align:middle line:84% nothing that textbook designer's going to be able to do. 00:51:51.100 --> 00:51:52.892 align:middle line:84% Because it's not going to-- not accessible. 00:51:52.892 --> 00:51:55.430 align:middle line:84% So it kind of depends on context. 00:51:55.430 --> 00:51:59.680 align:middle line:84% So for Christine, you're welcome to email us or tell us 00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:01.600 align:middle line:84% what specifically ones you're using and why. 00:52:01.600 --> 00:52:02.975 align:middle line:84% And maybe we can give you a hand. 00:52:02.975 --> 00:52:05.058 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, that'd be helpful, actually. 00:52:05.058 --> 00:52:06.880 align:middle line:84% Because that's something I'm not-- 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:08.590 align:middle line:84% we haven't followed that carefully. 00:52:08.590 --> 00:52:11.230 align:middle line:84% And so that would be a good starting point 00:52:11.230 --> 00:52:12.715 align:middle line:90% to look at that more deeply. 00:52:12.715 --> 00:52:15.185 align:middle line:90% 00:52:15.185 --> 00:52:16.560 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Great, thank you. 00:52:16.560 --> 00:52:19.310 align:middle line:84% Another question is about thinking 00:52:19.310 --> 00:52:21.260 align:middle line:84% about doing some of the work to make 00:52:21.260 --> 00:52:25.670 align:middle line:84% your course accessible proactively versus reactively. 00:52:25.670 --> 00:52:28.220 align:middle line:84% And Rob says, "With making course materials accessible 00:52:28.220 --> 00:52:30.103 align:middle line:84% taking a big time investment, would you 00:52:30.103 --> 00:52:31.520 align:middle line:84% recommend trying to make materials 00:52:31.520 --> 00:52:33.860 align:middle line:84% accessible in anticipation of future students 00:52:33.860 --> 00:52:35.750 align:middle line:84% or focusing on familiarity with tools 00:52:35.750 --> 00:52:38.438 align:middle line:84% and waiting for students to make their needs known to you? 00:52:38.438 --> 00:52:39.980 align:middle line:84% If you recommend the latter, how do I 00:52:39.980 --> 00:52:42.190 align:middle line:84% encourage students to share their needs with me?" 00:52:42.190 --> 00:52:45.170 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, I think certain things probably 00:52:45.170 --> 00:52:49.570 align:middle line:90% you can do for everybody. 00:52:49.570 --> 00:52:55.330 align:middle line:84% And to start out, for example, if you're doing PowerPoints, 00:52:55.330 --> 00:52:58.960 align:middle line:84% just make sure you add things into the notes 00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:00.730 align:middle line:90% there that might be useful. 00:53:00.730 --> 00:53:02.890 align:middle line:84% And also, just make the PowerPoint 00:53:02.890 --> 00:53:06.580 align:middle line:84% available to all students ahead of time. 00:53:06.580 --> 00:53:10.288 align:middle line:84% And usually, these PowerPoints live more than one course. 00:53:10.288 --> 00:53:12.580 align:middle line:84% The first time you put them together, that's difficult. 00:53:12.580 --> 00:53:15.530 align:middle line:90% But the second or third time-- 00:53:15.530 --> 00:53:18.340 align:middle line:84% and so that just makes the course accessible or more 00:53:18.340 --> 00:53:19.730 align:middle line:90% accessible for everyone. 00:53:19.730 --> 00:53:22.690 align:middle line:84% So think about ways that you can provide 00:53:22.690 --> 00:53:28.680 align:middle line:84% some extra scaffolding, extra information out there 00:53:28.680 --> 00:53:30.867 align:middle line:90% to help all students. 00:53:30.867 --> 00:53:32.700 align:middle line:84% And if you think about helping all students, 00:53:32.700 --> 00:53:34.380 align:middle line:84% you're usually helping those students 00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:36.120 align:middle line:84% who have disabilities at the same time. 00:53:36.120 --> 00:53:38.445 align:middle line:90% 00:53:38.445 --> 00:53:39.320 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Yeah. 00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:40.960 align:middle line:84% I was just going to say, too, I think 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.750 align:middle line:84% a lot of times we talk about this as being a process. 00:53:43.750 --> 00:53:45.483 align:middle line:90% It doesn't all happen overnight. 00:53:45.483 --> 00:53:47.650 align:middle line:84% But you do a little bit here and a little bit there. 00:53:47.650 --> 00:53:49.150 align:middle line:84% And figure out what you can do next. 00:53:49.150 --> 00:53:51.608 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah, and do the easy things first and then 00:53:51.608 --> 00:53:52.840 align:middle line:90% the harder things later. 00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:56.830 align:middle line:84% If you have some old PDFs that are not accessible, 00:53:56.830 --> 00:53:59.290 align:middle line:84% that's a little harder to sort of make it accessible, 00:53:59.290 --> 00:54:02.920 align:middle line:84% although there are techniques for doing that. 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.233 align:middle line:84% But I can't say they're super easy. 00:54:05.233 --> 00:54:06.400 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: They're not. 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:07.740 align:middle line:90% Yeah, absolutely. 00:54:07.740 --> 00:54:09.490 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: There's one more question. 00:54:09.490 --> 00:54:11.380 align:middle line:84% I want to make sure we get to it in the chat. 00:54:11.380 --> 00:54:14.800 align:middle line:84% Karen asked, "Do you know if most states have K-12 CS 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.050 align:middle line:84% standards that include accessibility information 00:54:17.050 --> 00:54:18.160 align:middle line:90% and resources?" 00:54:18.160 --> 00:54:19.330 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: Oh, I can take that one. 00:54:19.330 --> 00:54:20.170 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: Yeah, I was going to say, Stefik, 00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:21.973 align:middle line:90% I think you can speak to that. 00:54:21.973 --> 00:54:23.140 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: So there's-- 00:54:23.140 --> 00:54:25.480 align:middle line:84% so I don't know the laws of every single state. 00:54:25.480 --> 00:54:28.490 align:middle line:84% But I know that there's two explicitly that do. 00:54:28.490 --> 00:54:29.500 align:middle line:90% The first is Nevada. 00:54:29.500 --> 00:54:31.420 align:middle line:84% And I know because I helped write it. 00:54:31.420 --> 00:54:34.750 align:middle line:84% And so that particular one requires 00:54:34.750 --> 00:54:37.240 align:middle line:84% that the state take into account accessibility needs. 00:54:37.240 --> 00:54:40.060 align:middle line:84% And then it also involves some secondary regulations 00:54:40.060 --> 00:54:41.750 align:middle line:90% about what that means. 00:54:41.750 --> 00:54:45.620 align:middle line:84% It has to follow WCAG 2.1 AA and stuff like that. 00:54:45.620 --> 00:54:47.900 align:middle line:84% However, they don't really have any teeth. 00:54:47.900 --> 00:54:52.210 align:middle line:84% So if someone violates that, it's sort of like, well, sorry. 00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:56.120 align:middle line:84% So the details of the regulations do matter. 00:54:56.120 --> 00:54:57.610 align:middle line:90% The second is Maryland. 00:54:57.610 --> 00:54:59.320 align:middle line:90% Maryland's is interesting. 00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:00.070 align:middle line:90% It's brand new. 00:55:00.070 --> 00:55:01.600 align:middle line:84% They only passed these regulations 00:55:01.600 --> 00:55:02.890 align:middle line:90% relatively recently. 00:55:02.890 --> 00:55:04.870 align:middle line:84% And they have some pretty serious teeth-- 00:55:04.870 --> 00:55:08.530 align:middle line:84% straight up, if you're doing CS and it's not accessible, 00:55:08.530 --> 00:55:11.530 align:middle line:84% you get a fine from the government proactively. 00:55:11.530 --> 00:55:13.930 align:middle line:84% And I forget exactly the details about it. 00:55:13.930 --> 00:55:18.250 align:middle line:84% But man, if you're doing stuff in Maryland, 00:55:18.250 --> 00:55:20.290 align:middle line:84% they're like, no, we take equity seriously. 00:55:20.290 --> 00:55:22.780 align:middle line:84% If you don't follow basic guidelines, 00:55:22.780 --> 00:55:23.920 align:middle line:90% you're excluding people. 00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:25.630 align:middle line:90% And that's an offense. 00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:27.160 align:middle line:90% So you get a fine. 00:55:27.160 --> 00:55:29.020 align:middle line:90% But I don't know. 00:55:29.020 --> 00:55:29.740 align:middle line:90% I'm not a lawyer. 00:55:29.740 --> 00:55:31.900 align:middle line:84% So I don't know the exact details of how it works, 00:55:31.900 --> 00:55:33.790 align:middle line:84% and how they verify, and stuff like that. 00:55:33.790 --> 00:55:36.640 align:middle line:84% The last thing I'll mention is not a state guideline 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:40.630 align:middle line:84% but federally, and that's for K through 12, is IDEA. 00:55:40.630 --> 00:55:43.870 align:middle line:84% IDEA is a law that many people know about related 00:55:43.870 --> 00:55:45.040 align:middle line:90% to disabilities. 00:55:45.040 --> 00:55:48.490 align:middle line:84% But to my knowledge, it really only accounts-- and Richard, 00:55:48.490 --> 00:55:51.280 align:middle line:84% correct me if I'm wrong on this-- it only really accounts 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:52.840 align:middle line:90% if the class is required. 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:55.120 align:middle line:84% It doesn't necessarily count for classes 00:55:55.120 --> 00:55:57.280 align:middle line:84% that are optional or after-school activities 00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:58.370 align:middle line:90% and stuff like that. 00:55:58.370 --> 00:56:00.340 align:middle line:84% But if you've got a required class-- 00:56:00.340 --> 00:56:04.090 align:middle line:84% and in many states the classes are becoming required for CS-- 00:56:04.090 --> 00:56:06.440 align:middle line:90% then IDEA certainly applies. 00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:08.860 align:middle line:84% So it at least is covered under federal guidelines 00:56:08.860 --> 00:56:10.420 align:middle line:90% that it has to be accessible. 00:56:10.420 --> 00:56:13.930 align:middle line:84% So there's kind of a mishmash of accessibility rules 00:56:13.930 --> 00:56:16.450 align:middle line:84% and regulations across the country, two 00:56:16.450 --> 00:56:20.530 align:middle line:84% with explicit rules for K through 12 computer science 00:56:20.530 --> 00:56:22.960 align:middle line:84% that I know of, and then some federal guidelines. 00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:26.683 align:middle line:84% But that kind of depends on the context of the class overall. 00:56:26.683 --> 00:56:27.850 align:middle line:90% Richard, did I mess that up? 00:56:27.850 --> 00:56:29.212 align:middle line:90% Anything- I'm not thinking of? 00:56:29.212 --> 00:56:31.420 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: No, I think that covers it very well. 00:56:31.420 --> 00:56:31.990 align:middle line:90% Thank you. 00:56:31.990 --> 00:56:34.957 align:middle line:90% 00:56:34.957 --> 00:56:36.040 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Excellent. 00:56:36.040 --> 00:56:38.370 align:middle line:84% Well, a lot of what is in the chat 00:56:38.370 --> 00:56:40.530 align:middle line:90% I feel like we have gotten to. 00:56:40.530 --> 00:56:43.717 align:middle line:84% Richard or Stefik, are there any last thoughts 00:56:43.717 --> 00:56:44.550 align:middle line:90% you'd like to share? 00:56:44.550 --> 00:56:49.630 align:middle line:90% 00:56:49.630 --> 00:56:51.280 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: I guess the last thing 00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:57.040 align:middle line:84% Stefik said was a little bit scary, that these laws 00:56:57.040 --> 00:56:59.620 align:middle line:90% and stuff like that-- 00:56:59.620 --> 00:57:02.770 align:middle line:84% I think the way to think about accessibility and students 00:57:02.770 --> 00:57:05.080 align:middle line:84% with disability is make progress. 00:57:05.080 --> 00:57:06.760 align:middle line:90% Do something. 00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.130 align:middle line:84% And then you do the little thing. 00:57:09.130 --> 00:57:11.600 align:middle line:84% And then you do a little bit more and so on. 00:57:11.600 --> 00:57:16.790 align:middle line:84% So just making your class more welcoming for all students, 00:57:16.790 --> 00:57:19.750 align:middle line:90% I think, is kind of the mantra. 00:57:19.750 --> 00:57:21.405 align:middle line:90% [INTERPOSING VOICES] 00:57:21.405 --> 00:57:22.780 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: And there's a lot 00:57:22.780 --> 00:57:25.360 align:middle line:84% you can do that doesn't really take a whole lot of work, too. 00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:29.620 align:middle line:84% So it's not like you have to completely reinvent everything. 00:57:29.620 --> 00:57:32.227 align:middle line:84% Oftentimes, adding some extra descriptions 00:57:32.227 --> 00:57:33.310 align:middle line:90% can make a big difference. 00:57:33.310 --> 00:57:35.290 align:middle line:84% And the little things might sound little. 00:57:35.290 --> 00:57:36.190 align:middle line:90% But they're huge. 00:57:36.190 --> 00:57:39.400 align:middle line:84% They can make a huge difference to students, especially 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:40.030 align:middle line:90% at a young age. 00:57:40.030 --> 00:57:42.130 align:middle line:84% So it's not always like a mountain of work. 00:57:42.130 --> 00:57:43.990 align:middle line:84% It might be you start with adding 00:57:43.990 --> 00:57:46.540 align:middle line:84% some alternate descriptions to your PowerPoint slides. 00:57:46.540 --> 00:57:47.380 align:middle line:90% It sounds silly. 00:57:47.380 --> 00:57:49.690 align:middle line:84% But honestly, it only takes an hour or two. 00:57:49.690 --> 00:57:52.868 align:middle line:90% And it makes a big difference. 00:57:52.868 --> 00:57:55.160 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: I think that the other high-level thing 00:57:55.160 --> 00:57:59.300 align:middle line:84% I would say is that I think options is really nice. 00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:02.660 align:middle line:84% If you have options that, for example, when we had our summer 00:58:02.660 --> 00:58:05.240 align:middle line:84% program a few years ago, Stefik, it 00:58:05.240 --> 00:58:08.570 align:middle line:84% was an option to work in pairs, that work in teams. 00:58:08.570 --> 00:58:11.360 align:middle line:84% It was not-- it wasn't required by everybody. 00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:13.910 align:middle line:84% And that gives people a chance to shine alone 00:58:13.910 --> 00:58:15.458 align:middle line:90% or to shine as a pair. 00:58:15.458 --> 00:58:17.000 align:middle line:84% And I don't think any of the pairings 00:58:17.000 --> 00:58:20.870 align:middle line:84% did any better than any of the individuals. 00:58:20.870 --> 00:58:26.280 align:middle line:84% So make sure that you're not super rigid. 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:27.385 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: Yeah. 00:58:27.385 --> 00:58:29.260 align:middle line:84% BRIANNA BLASER: I was just going to say, too, 00:58:29.260 --> 00:58:31.802 align:middle line:84% I think another piece of it is just making sure that students 00:58:31.802 --> 00:58:34.300 align:middle line:84% with disabilities feel welcome in these classrooms 00:58:34.300 --> 00:58:36.670 align:middle line:84% and get in the classrooms to begin with, right? 00:58:36.670 --> 00:58:39.007 align:middle line:84% They will often self-select out or not 00:58:39.007 --> 00:58:41.590 align:middle line:84% be encouraged to take computer science classes in the same way 00:58:41.590 --> 00:58:42.790 align:middle line:90% other students are. 00:58:42.790 --> 00:58:45.370 align:middle line:84% RICHARD LADNER: That kind of reminds me a little of Raina. 00:58:45.370 --> 00:58:47.620 align:middle line:84% Because when I first met Raina, I 00:58:47.620 --> 00:58:51.590 align:middle line:84% wasn't sure how to meet her accessibility needs at all. 00:58:51.590 --> 00:58:55.330 align:middle line:84% But even though I didn't know, I said, OK. 00:58:55.330 --> 00:58:58.390 align:middle line:84% And then we worked it out so that she 00:58:58.390 --> 00:59:00.325 align:middle line:90% was able to participate fully. 00:59:00.325 --> 00:59:01.700 align:middle line:84% ANDREAS STEFIK: You know, I think 00:59:01.700 --> 00:59:05.000 align:middle line:84% that's a really important point that it's also 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:08.840 align:middle line:84% OK to make mistakes related to accessibility. 00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:10.910 align:middle line:84% I remember the very first time I worked 00:59:10.910 --> 00:59:12.260 align:middle line:90% with a deaf-blind person. 00:59:12.260 --> 00:59:14.540 align:middle line:84% It took us quite a while to figure out 00:59:14.540 --> 00:59:18.440 align:middle line:84% what the right strategy was for communication and how to do it. 00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.900 align:middle line:90% This particular individual had-- 00:59:20.900 --> 00:59:23.270 align:middle line:84% I forget the exact disease off the top of my head, 00:59:23.270 --> 00:59:25.578 align:middle line:84% but it's equivalent of a tunnel vision. 00:59:25.578 --> 00:59:26.870 align:middle line:90% RICHARD LADNER: Usher syndrome. 00:59:26.870 --> 00:59:27.230 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: Thank you. 00:59:27.230 --> 00:59:28.580 align:middle line:90% Yes, it's Usher syndrome. 00:59:28.580 --> 00:59:31.130 align:middle line:84% And so they would use text messages 00:59:31.130 --> 00:59:33.080 align:middle line:84% in a very specific way for communication. 00:59:33.080 --> 00:59:34.190 align:middle line:90% But those are slow. 00:59:34.190 --> 00:59:37.350 align:middle line:84% So we ended up having to hire certain kinds of captionists 00:59:37.350 --> 00:59:39.600 align:middle line:84% and stuff like that to figure out how to make it work. 00:59:39.600 --> 00:59:41.990 align:middle line:84% And honestly, it took us a while to figure that out. 00:59:41.990 --> 00:59:44.000 align:middle line:84% What would work for the whole team? 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:45.230 align:middle line:90% And that's OK. 00:59:45.230 --> 00:59:46.940 align:middle line:84% Because there's no other way to do it. 00:59:46.940 --> 00:59:48.170 align:middle line:90% Just kind of experiment. 00:59:48.170 --> 00:59:50.570 align:middle line:84% And be willing to make a few mistakes. 00:59:50.570 --> 00:59:51.290 align:middle line:90% Break some eggs. 00:59:51.290 --> 00:59:52.950 align:middle line:90% And figure it out. 00:59:52.950 --> 00:59:54.380 align:middle line:90% That's OK with accessibility. 00:59:54.380 --> 00:59:55.460 align:middle line:90% Sometimes it takes time. 00:59:55.460 --> 00:59:59.000 align:middle line:84% Because people can be really unique in sort of the needs 00:59:59.000 --> 00:59:59.930 align:middle line:90% that they have. 00:59:59.930 --> 01:00:01.420 align:middle line:90% That's pretty normal. 01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:02.420 align:middle line:90% BRIANNA BLASER: Awesome. 01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:03.780 align:middle line:90% Well, we are at our time. 01:00:03.780 --> 01:00:06.440 align:middle line:84% So I want to make sure that we let folks go. 01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:08.960 align:middle line:84% Look out for an email with an evaluation to fill out. 01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:11.302 align:middle line:84% We're always excited to hear your feedback. 01:00:11.302 --> 01:00:13.760 align:middle line:84% And thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:14.635 align:middle line:90% RICHARD LADNER: Yeah. 01:00:14.635 --> 01:00:16.010 align:middle line:90% Thank you, everyone, for coming. 01:00:16.010 --> 01:00:17.800 align:middle line:90% ANDREAS STEFIK: Thank you. 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:20.000 align:middle line:90%